Our Interviews

october 11, 2022

An interview with Cemil Bayik, KCK co-Chair, about the latest developments in Kurdistan, the Middle East and the world, including the strategy of international powers with regards to the imprisonment of Abdullah Öcalan, the latest visit of the CPT to the Turkish prison island Imrali, the significance of the recent attack of the guerrilla in the city of Mersin, the legitimacy of the uprising in East Kurdistan/Iran, the successful resistance of the guerrilla against Turkey in South Kurdistan, the KDP´s involvement in the killing of guerrilla fighters and attempts in Turkey to break apart the HDP:

24 years ago, a conspiracy was organized against the Kurdish People’s Leader Abdullah Öcalan by international powers and regional collaborators. How would you describe the purpose of this conspiracy?

It is well known that shortly after the beginning of the International Conspiracy protests under the slogan ‘You cannot darken our sun’ were led by Halit Oral. The aim of these protests was to create a circle around Rêber Apo and to thus defeat the conspiracy. These protests had a great impact. Many people later participated in them. By remembering our friend Halit Oral, I would like to take this opportunity to respectfully commemorate all our martyrs who stood against the conspiracy and defended the Leadership [Abdullah Öcalan]. All of these martyrs are still alive in the hearts of the Kurdish people. We have reached this stage today thanks to these heroic martyrs. Because they created values for us and showed us how we need to struggle. The International Conspiracy was developed against our movement and our people in the form of the attack on Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan], but it was not simply limited to this.

This conspiracy was developed against all peoples and humanity. It is a huge conspiracy. I would like to once more condemn all the powers who carried out this conspiracy. Everyone who promoted the conspiracy, who served it, who took part in it and who led it, should be honest to themselves: They need to see what they have done, which goals they have served. They should no longer insist on the conspiracy and rather acknowledge their mistakes. In fact, they have committed a great crime, not only a simple mistake. They need to give up their policy against the PKK and the Kurdish people. Rêber Apo has always wanted to solve the Kurdish question. Solving it means solving the problems of the peoples of the Middle East. Rêber Apo has dedicated his whole life to this. That is what he has struggled for. He has always wanted to solve this problem through dialog.

Europe created the Kurdish problem. That is why this problems needs to be solved together with Europe. Europe created the Kurdish problem and passed it on to the Turkish state. They told the Turkish state to carry out this politics and the state is still doing exactly this. Rêber Apo’s aim has always been to solve the Kurdish question. He wants to create a change in the current mentality and conscience. He wants to develop a revolution of democracy and freedom. To fulfill this aim, he has always tried to solve the problem with whoever created it. That is, with Europe. Yet, every time Rêber Apo wanted to solve the problem with Europe, Europe’s response was: ‘You cannot solve this problem. We won´t solve this problem either. This does not serve our interests. Our interests are not in favor of solving the Kurdish problem.´ In other words, they want a constant war between Kurds and Turks. Because they have developed their system in the Middle East on this basis.

When Rêber Apo went to Europe and presented his 8-points-plan to solve this problem, the forces there should have welcomed his efforts. Rêber Apo has put his life on the line for this cause. He said, “I want to solve this problem,” but the answer of the international powers was the conspiracy. Because if the Kurdish problem was solved, a democratic system would develop in the Middle East and this would lead to a change in the whole world. That is why those who created the Kurdish problem continued to aggravate it. Rêber Apo had fulfilled all the conditions for the solution of the problem but they responded with a conspiracy and built the İmrali system. The International Conspiracy was led by the US, England and Israel, but it was Europe that planned and promoted it. Rêber Apo later said that when he was captured and taken to İmrali, the first person he spoke to there was a representative of the CPT (European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment). Back then, the CPT clearly said that they had created the Imrali system and that they would keep track of it. Therefore, not only Turkey but also Europe is responsible for İmrali.

Rêber Apo has said that Turkey is just the guardian. Just as the Turkish state today gives the Barzanis a task which they then fulfill, the conspiratorial forces have given this task to the Turkish state and the Turkish state is fulfilling its duty. The AKP-MHP is deceiving the people of Turkey when it spreads the lie of “We are nationalist and against the US and Europe”. The AKP-MHP came to power with the support of these powers. Because those who established the conspiracy and the İmrali system wanted a Kurdish war. They wanted to achieve this goal with the help of the AKP-MHP government. That is why they brought the AKP-MHP to power.

Never before has such a huge conspiracy ever been carried out against any person, people or movement. Rêber Apo is not an ordinary leader. He is not like other leaders. The bigger a leader and the bigger a movement, the bigger the conspiracy against them. This is the reason why the international powers are involved in the conspiracy. Because they saw that Rêber Apo wanted to solve the Kurdish question. Solving the Kurdish question meant solving the problems of the peoples struggling for freedom and democracy in the Middle East. The forces involved in the conspiracy saw that this constituted a great danger for them. That is why they wanted the Kurdish question to remain unresolved and the brotherhood of the peoples in the Middle East not to develop. They wanted the contradictions they created in Kurdistan, Turkey and the Middle East to continue.

This was the purpose of the conspiracy. That is why they wanted to neutralize the movement that Rêber Apo had built for humanity and for the cause of human values. The goal of the conspiracy was the complete annihilation of Rêber Apo. First physically, then politically, they wanted to destroy Rêber Apo. That is why the isolation is getting more and more severe every day. That is why the CPT, the US and Europe are all silent. Their aim is to destroy Rêber Apo. They think that when they destroy him, they will also crush the movement. Because Rêber Apo and the PKK are preventing the genocide against the Kurdish people. Rêber Apo has stood strong against the conspiracy and has thus defeated it. By creating his paradigm, he has given humanity a great weapon to defeat the conspiracy as well. He has given everyone a clear answer to the question of what kind of philosophy and ideology those who oppose the conspiracy, slavery and power and fight for freedom and democracy need in order to achieve their goals. Today, those who defend Rêber Apo have realized that the conspiracy is not only directed against Rêber Apo and the Kurds, but also against humanity as a whole. That is why they are defending Rêber Apo and the PKK.

The struggle against the conspiracy is growing stronger every day. This is important for everyone to understand. The conspiratorial forces should not insist on their politics but need to redeem themselves instead. They cannot do politics without the Kurdish people and the PKK. If they want to do politics, if they want to be friends with the Kurdish people, they need to give up their politics against the PKK and Rêber Apo. The PKK, the Kurdish people and the international friends of the Kurds also have duties to fulfill. We must understand why the conspiracy was started and what the conspiratorial forces have benefited from since then. We need to also understand our shortcomings and mistakes in this respect and then correct them. Our people need to know very well that as long as the Kurdish problem is not solved, the conspiracy will continue. Our movement started the campaign “Dem dema azadiyê ye” [´The Time for Freedom is Now´]. If we want to bring an end to the International Conspiracy, we must strengthen this campaign even more. Thus, we can ensure the physical freedom of Rêber Apo.

The CPT went to İmralı at the end of September. After their visit, they announced that they would submit a report to Turkey in 6 months and then give Turkey another 6 months to respond. How do you evaluate this development?

Our people need to understand well why the CPT recently went to İmrali. They did so because the CPT had said that the Turkish state needs to publish its plan [regarding the isolation of Abdullah Öcalan] by the end of September. Now, September is over, but the Turkish state has still not presented any plan. In response to this, the international protests for the freedom of Rêber Apo have increased. The people have demanded that Europe fulfill its laws. They have demanded that Rêber Apo be released from prison and to see him. Thus, great pressure has been created. Although the deadline given to the Turkish state has expired, Turkey did not publish its plan and thus did not fulfill European laws. That is why the CPT had to go to Imrali. If they had not gone, their crimes against Rêber Apo, the Kurdish people and humanity would have become even clearer. So they went to free themselves of this burden. Neither Turkey, nor Europe uphold their own laws. There is no law and justice, only a total war.

Not only Turkey but also Europe is guilty of the politics against Rêber Apo. Because they are the ones who created the Imrali system. Our people and international friends need to know well that the existing laws are not applied to the Kurds. The laws only exist to eliminate everything with the name Kurdistan or Kurdish. And they even see this as the right thing to do. They consider it their right to do all this. The only thing that will bring Rêber Apo out of prison is our struggle. Whatever Kurds have won so far, they have won through their struggle. Whatever they will gain from now on, they will also gain through continuing this struggle. All other ways are closed to the Kurds. Therefore, Kurds should not deceive themselves.

Kurds should not say “there are laws, democracy, human rights and they apply to us too”. These laws are not for the Kurds but for the current powers. Therefore, Kurds are no longer obliged to act according to the laws of these powers. They should not expect anything from these powers. If there was law and justice, would these powers deal with Rêber Apo like this? The CPT says it will release a report in 6 months and will then give Turkey 6 more months to respond. So all this will take another year. They are simply trying to making fun of everybody. The Kurdish people should not accept this. The CPT needs to immediately share the results of its latest visit to Imrali with the public. Our people, the lawyers, artists, writers, artists and writers need to demand this. Pressure needs to be put on the CPT.

The guerrilla fighters Sara Tolhildan and Rûken Zelal recently carried out a very effective attack in Mersin against the ongoing attacks on the Kurdish people and the PKK. This attack has led to different debates. How do you evaluate the impact of this attack and the discussions that evolved afterwards?

The attack carried out by our friends Sara and Rûken was very big and successful. Maybe some people try to make this attack look simple and meaningless. But all these attempts are useless. No one can hide this attack, nor make it look meaningless or distort it. The Turkish state is doing everything it can against our movement and our people. There is nothing it has not done. All this is happening in front of everyone’s eyes. All the things they are doing to our people in North Kurdistan, in the prisons and in Rojava. They are using all kinds of weapons against the guerrillas: drones, helicopters and tanks. They use all these weapons without any interruption. They are also using banned weapons such as chemical weapons, tactical nuclear bombs, thermobaric bombs and all kinds of gases.

Corpses regularly come out of the prisons [in North Kurdistan and Turkey]. Prisoners are regularly executed there. The Turkish state deceives people with claims like “he was sick and died” or “he fell and died”. They have put the whole Kurdish people in a huge prison and eliminate everything with the name Kurdistan or Kurdish. On this basis, they attack not only the people, but also nature and animals. In other words, the Turkish state wants to destroy everything in Kurdistan. They have left no trees in the Botan region [in North Kurdistan]. This is not simply about cutting down trees and making money by selling them. They are waging a war of extermination. The reason they cut down trees in [the North Kurdish regions] Botan and Dersim is the politics of genocide. This policy eliminates the possibility of life for the Kurdish people. No one in the world has ever carried out such a policy against any people. The Turkish state commits massacres every day in Rojava. They have occupied many places and changed the demography there. There is not a single day that the Turkish state does not massacre people.

The Turkish state assassinates people every day in South Kurdistan, Şengal [Sinjar], Maxmur, Sulaymaniyah and in the South Kurdish Media Defense Zones. In other words, they are pursuing a policy of genocide against the Kurdish people. If you carry out this policy against the Kurdish people, they have the right to defend themselves. This is a principle that is also accepted internationally. Does anybody really think that the Kurdish people will just accept their annihilation? This is impossible. This is an immoral and inhuman policy. The Kurdish people will of course defend themselves against all these attacks. This is their right. Sara and Rûken carried out the recent attack in Mersin for exactly this reason. So why don’t those who criticize this attack, those who want to simplify, negate and distort it, why don’t they oppose the Turkish state’s policy against the Kurdish people, against the guerrilla and the use of chemical weapons against them? Why don’t they say to the Turkish state, to the AKP-MHP government, “The politics you are conducting is criminal. You are committing a crime and you are trying to eliminate a people”? There is a popular saying: ´You reap what you sow´.

What is the Turkish state doing in Kurdistan? War, massacre, torture, violence, forced migration and extermination. This is the kind of policy that they are conducting against the entire Kurdish society. They are conducting this policy against the women, men, youth, old people, children and even the nature of Kurdistan. Of course there will be a price the Turkish state will have to pay for doing all this. If you make the Kurds pay this kind of price, won’t the Kurds make you pay a price in return? Of course they will. This is the Kurds’ right. Those who say that there should be no war and no violence should first demand that the Turkish state stop all this. The Turkish state wants to eliminate the Kurds. The Kurds do not want to eliminate the Turkish state or the Turkish people. Some people claim that the Kurds are splitting up Turkey and that they are committing treason. But those who claim this are actually the ones who are tearing Turkey apart and are thus betraying it. When the Republic of Turkey was newly established, there were certain speeches held by Mustafa Kemal and writings of him with regards to this issue. Back then, there were Kurds in the Turkish parliament. Mustafa Kemal even accepted autonomy. So the Turkish state is the one who betrayed the Kurds. The Kurds have not betrayed anybody.

The Kurds demand their rights. Those in power in the Turkish stare are the ones who have torn Turkey and the Turkish society apart. The Kurds are waging a just and legitimate struggle. Now, Sara and Rûken have carried out a huge attack in Mersin. Everyone needs to think carefully about this, draw conclusions for themselves and approach this issue correctly. Why was this attack carried out? What was the reason for it? What is the Turkish state doing to the Kurds? What is it doing to the guerrillas that these two Kurdish women decided to organize such an attack? With this attack, they took a clear stance against the oppression of the Turkish state. This is in line with the strategy of self-defense. No one has the right to say anything against this strategy. Everyone needs to approach this issue correctly and speak appropriately. Any discussions other than those that are about the consequences of this attack for the Kurdish people and the peoples of Turkey are simply empty talk. Taking a stance against this strategy and this attack constitutes nothing else but a lack of faith and conscience.

After the murder of the Kurdish woman Jîna Emînî in Iran an uprising led by women started. This uprising has been going on for weeks now. According to some sources, more than 200 people have been killed. As the Co-Presidency of the KCK Executive Council, you made a statement criticizing the Iranian state. What would you like to say about the uprising and the response of the Iranian state?

A Kurdish woman was tortured to death which has now led to an uprising. Who martyred that Kurdish woman? The Iranian state. The people were not willing to accept what the Iranian state did. There had already been too much pressure and too many problems in the country. So when a Kurdish woman was martyred due to torture, the people started to rise up. First the women rose up, but as the days went by, in many provinces the people started to rise up together with the women. Now this revolt has grown even bigger. The demands of the people are just and democratic. The Iranian state should listen to the women and society in general. It needs to establish a dialog with them, discuss their problems and demands and find solutions. But what is the Iranian state actually doing? Instead of listening to the legitimate and democratic demands, approaching them seriously and solving the problems, it reacts with violence against the people. In other words, it wants to eliminate these demands with violence. This only leads to more deaths and a deepening of the existing problems. The Iranian state needs to realize that the methods it uses only aggravate the existing problems instead of solving them. This even poses a danger for the state itself.

The Iranian state needs to realize this. Its current attitude does not solve the existing problems. They need to be solved through dialogue. Instead of acting accordingly, they say, “America and Israel are carrying out these actions to destroy Iran.” How realistic is this? Some people may believe this, but society does not. America and Israel did not kill Jîna. An institution of the Iranian state did. This Kurdish woman was murdered in their custody. If they say that foreign powers are involved in these uprisings, this is not true. You yourself prepared the basis for this uprising. Do foreign powers have plans with regards to Iran? Of course they do. They may also want to benefit from these developments. But the Iranian state provides this basis and these forces simply make use of it.

If you don’t want foreign countries to interfere in your internal affairs and create problems, then you need to solve your internal problems. Then foreign powers will not be able to create chaos. So the problem does not lie outside of Iran but inside the country. That’s why this has to be solved internally. Therefore, those speeches [by Iranian state representatives] don’t have much effect on the people. Kurdish and Iranian women are fighting for democracy and freedom. These women were also the ones who overthrew the Shah [in 1979]. In other words, those who stood against the Shah together with the women are now standing against them. They need to acknowledge this reality. A great democratic revolution took place [in 1979]. If it had continued, Iran would have become a democratic country where everyone can express themselves. It would have become an example for the Middle East. Iranian history also provides the ground for this. But they did not take history and revolution as a basis. On the contrary, they themselves have turned into a power. That is why they are now in a conflict with the women with whom they overthrew the Shah. They themselves are responsible for this, not foreign powers. Their politics is the reason for this.

Women are claiming their freedom. This means claiming the freedom of the people. Rêber Apo has also said that the 21st century will be the century of the women’s revolution. The recent events clearly show this. Since the start of the uprising of the women in Iran, women around the world have also become active. Everyone has recognized the important role of women. The Iranian state holds the Kurds responsible for this uprising. That’s why they attack Kurds and Kurdish institutions. There have been martyrs recently. On this occasion, I would like to respectfully commemorate the martyrs. I would also like to offer my condolences to the Kurdish people, Kurdish parties and institutions. The Turkish state and the Iranian state should not make these mistakes. They should not use violence against the Kurdish people. Instead, they should solve the Kurdish question through dialog. Violence will not solve the Kurdish question, but only deepen it. The deeper the Kurdish question gets in Iran, the bigger the problems in Iran will get. They need to focus on solving the problems through dialogue before they become even deeper.

Murders and assassinations are taking place not only in one part of Kurdistan, but in all four parts. Most recently in Sulaymaniyah, our journalist friend and academic Nagihan Akarsel, a member of the Jineolojî Research Center, was martyred. There have been similar assassinations in Sulaymaniyah before and all of them were said to have been carried out by allegedly ‘unknown assailants’. What is your take on these assassinations and the recent murder of Nagihan Akarsel?

Our friend Nagihan has done great work and great service for both women and the Kurdish people as a whole. She dedicated her entire life to the service of the women’s movement and the people of Kurdistan. She did this not only for North Kurdistan, but for all Kurdish women and for all women of the world. Her work was a great service for the Kurdish people and humanity. On this occasion, I would like to respectfully commemorate our friend Nagihan. We will never allow her efforts to go in vain. Instead, we will realize her dreams and goals under all circumstances and conditions.

They consciously targeted our friend Nagihan. Because she was doing important work for the Kurdish people, women and humanity. She was a member of the Jineolojî Research Center and was also the editor of the Jineolojî journal. The Turkish state is an enemy of women, Kurds, humanity and of human values. Who does the AKP-MHP government target? It targets women, the Kurdish people and those who do the most for humanity. It does not just target anyone, but especially those who do the greatest service. This clearly shows the true face of this regime.

Jineolojî – which our friend Nagihan served and worked for – is the work of Rêber Apo. He opened this field in order to serve the Kurdish women and humanity. Our friend Nagihan supported this work, that is, she supported Rêbêr Apo. She supported his philosophy and paradigm. She wanted to realize this philosophy and paradigm in practice, develop a new mentality and spread it all over the world to bring about a new conscience. Targeting Nagihan means targeting all women. For this reason, both Kurdish women and those who predicate themselves on the struggle for freedom and democracy need to show their support for Nagihan. How will her dreams and goals be realized? How can she be revenged? By deepening your understanding of Jineolojî and of the line developed by Rêber Apo for women. This is how we can take revenge for her an keep our friend Nagihan alive.

So why have all these murders taken place in Sulaymaniyah and in the Soran area? Especially the people of Soran need to understand what these murders are aimed at. The Soran area, which is known as a place of intellectuals, artists, writers and academics, needs to understand this situation and what these murders are aimed at. By creating a climate of fear, they want to silence and subjugate everyone and turn them into their slaves. Because there is a special characteristic of our people in the Soran area, and that is this: They do not accept oppression, power and slavery, and their sense of freedom is strong. Therefore, they always stand by the freedom movements. The Turkish state and its collaborators, the KDP and certain Turkmens who act together with the Turkish state know this.

Just as Rêber Apo and the PKK are an engine that carries the Kurdish people forward, the Soran area and its intellectuals are an engine for South Kurdistan. They are the ones who provide enlightenment for South Kurdistan. The Turkish state and the Barzanis do not want this enlightenment in Soran to spread to the Behdinan area. Therefore, they are trying to stop it. This is the reason for the attacks in Sulaymaniyah and the Soran area. Our people, intellectuals and politicians need to be aware of this situation. What is required of them is to take a firm stance against these assassinations. They need to stand up against the Turkish state, the Barzanis and certain Turkmens, not just by making statements. They need to tell them “we will not allow you to commit these evil deeds in our region”. They need to both stand up for the martyrs and for themselves based on this kind of attitude. If they do not harbor the traitors among themselves, if they confront them and expel them from their region, and if they take revenge on them, the Turkish state, the Barzanis and certain Turkmens will not be able to oppress the people in this area in such a way, and they will not be able to take over this area by scaring the people.

The people of Soran, their intellectuals, artists, and especially their women need to protect their history. Throughout history, the Soran area has stood against oppression and supported freedom. Today, the enemy attacks the PKK, because the PKK represents the feelings of the Kurdish people. They attack the PKK because it prevents the Turkish state and the Barzanis from realizing their goals. They need to recognize this and act accordingly. If they do so, neither the Turkish state, Parastin [KDP intelligence] nor certain Turkmens will be able to commit these evil deeds. Everybody knows that our friend Nagihan made great efforts for the people of Soran. How will they pay back their debts to the PKK? They can do so by standing up for our friend Nagihan and by taking a stance the Turkish state.

A major reason for such attacks against civilians is the Turkish state´s defeat due to the resistance of the guerrilla. What is the latest situation regarding the war against Turkish fascism?

The genocidal Turkish state does not distinguish between guerrilla fighters and civilians. For them, a Kurd is a Kurd. There are well known sayings like “There is no difference between black and white Kurds” or “The best Kurd is a dead Kurd”. This is the Turkish state´s approach to the Kurds. For them, there is no difference between a guerrilla fighter and other Kurds. The Turkish state claims “We only have a problem with the PKK, not with the Kurds” and the Barzanis also say “The PKK is the reason for the attacks of the Turkish state. If there was no PKK, the Turkish state would not attack [South Kurdistan]”. The Turkish state and the Barzanis are saying this for a reason. They want to say that nobody should support the PKK or take part in this struggle. They are telling everybody to stay outside of this struggle in order for the Turkish state and the Barzanis to be able to destroy the PKK and complete the Kurdish genocide. Their practice shows this very clearly: They don´t only attack the guerrillas but everything Kurdish in South Kurdistan, Rojava and North Kurdistan. We have all heard of the bulls in Spain that attack as soon as they see red. The AKP-MHP government and the Turkish state have a similar attitude and attack wherever they see anything Kurdish. They do not want anything with the name of Kurdistan or Kurdish to remain in the world. And they talk about this openly. Rêber Apo and the PKK are taking a heroic stance against this politics. Because they stand against those who target the Kurdish identity and prevent the completion of the Kurdish genocide. This not only prevents the genocide, but saves the Kurds from it, gives them an identity and dignity and has thus led to a lot of respect for Kurds around the world. This has brought the struggle of the Kurdish people to such a high level. Because of this, more and more people in the world want to understand the Kurdish people and the reality of the PKK in order to better understand the paradigm and philosophy behind this struggle. All these people around the world also think they can solve their own problems in this way.

The guerrilla is under all kinds of attacks. The Turkish state is trying to achieve results with its uninterrupted attacks against the guerrilla carried out with war planes, helicopters, tanks, artillery, various bombs including banned chemical weapons, tactical nuclear and thermobaric bombs. They do this because the 100th anniversary of the Treaty of Lausanne and the establishment of the Republic of Turkey is approaching. They want to achieve results before this date. Therefore, they have mobilized all the means that they have at their disposal. The guerrilla is acting heroically against this technology and all these weapons. Sometimes the guerrilla fighters cannot eat and remain hungry for days because they are under constant attacks. Still the guerrilla fighters do not allow the Turkish state to carry out its occupation plans and strike blows every day. Thus they show great heroism not only for themselves and the Kurdish people, but for all humanity. Therefore, the martyrs of the guerrilla are the martyrs of all humanity, not only of the Kurdish people.

The Turkish state is suffering heavy blows every single day. It now attacks more and more because it has not been able to achieve its goals. Since it cannot succeed despite all the means at its disposal, it makes use of the Barzanis. NATO has already supported the Turkish state greatly. Turkey is waging this war with all the extensive means provided to it by NATO. But this is not enough. Therefore, the Turkish state also needs to involve certain groups who call themselves Kurds. Just as the state used the village guards in North Kurdistan, it is now using the Barzanis in South Kurdistan. The Barzanis are the village guards of the South. They want to destroy the PKK with the help of the Turkish state. And the Turkish state wants to do the same with the support of the Barzanis. Today, they have joined hands and are waging a joint war against the PKK. Every day the role played by the KDP is becoming more obvious. Maybe the KDP cannot openly say to the Kurdish people, “We are at war with the Turkish state against the PKK”, so they are waging this war covertly. But they can no longer hide this. They have ambushed and martyred many guerrilla fighters. They annihilated three groups of guerrilla fighters in [the South Kurdish area of] Xelîfan. And they also built a road for the Turkish army on the Amediyê Hill. They also built a military station between our forces and the Turkish army. When they built these roads and the outpost, Turkish reconnaissance planes and drones were constantly flying overhead to prevent our forces from doing anything and to thus protect the KDP forces. The KDP and Barzanis are in these areas to protect the Turkish forces there. Because the Turkish state is in a difficult situation. They got stuck and have suffered heavy blows in the area. Therefore, the KDP and the Barzanis have come to their aid and rescue. They set up ambushes, cut off the supplies for our friends, prevent the transportation of material between the areas, bring supplies to the Turkish state and remove their dead and wounded. They push into areas where the Turkish state cannot enter. They can no longer hide the reality that they are taking part in this war in every way possible. We have warned them dozens of times not to help the Turkish state. Ok, you might not help us. We are not asking for that kind of help. But then don’t help the Turkish state either. What you are doing has nothing to do with being Kurdish. This does not serve the Kurdish cause in any way.

Now the war has entered a new phase. The Turkish state wants to achieve results quickly. Therefore, it has mobilized all its resources in order to break the will of the guerrilla and thus also crush the will of our people. In addition, the Barzanis, with whom the Turkish state used to fight together secretly, are now working together openly with the Turkish state. Therefore, the phase we are currently going through is not like previous phases. Things have become more violent and have reached a dangerous level. It is important for our people to recognize this. This is why everyone needs to predicate themselves on the spirit of Rêber Apo’s resistance in İmrali, the spirit of the guerrilla resistance in Zap, Metîna and Avaşîn and the spirit of our friends Sara and Rûken who literally caused an earthquake in Turkey by striking a great blow to the enemy in Mersin. Thus, they have shown us that we can defeat the enemy, that we can fight and which method of struggle we can use to protect ourselves and avoid annihilation. No matter where you are, everyone needs to fulfill their duties and responsibilities based on this spirit.

The guerrilla is fulfilling its duties in its own way, but this does not mean that the danger has disappeared. Currently, all the burden lies on the guerrilla’s shoulders. All of us need to lift this burden from the shoulders of the guerrilla. Our friends Sara and Rûken have put this task in front of everyone and have thus also given a clear warning by saying, “The enemy wants to eliminate us. So this is the way we need to protect ourselves. There is no other way”. On this basis, everyone needs to fulfill their duties wherever they live. We have reached the point of overthrowing the AKP-MHP government. This allows us to strike even bigger blows which is exactly our goal. We have paid a great price and have experienced a lot of pain. We have brought this struggle to the final stage and now it is time for us to achieve our desired results.

I would like to salute all the heroic guerrilla fighters in the tunnels and outside who are waging an unprecedented struggle under the most difficult conditions against the colonialists. I would like to send my respectful greetings to them. I would also like to remember all the martyrs with gratitude and send my condolences to all our people. Indeed, each of these martyrs are great martyrs of humanity. This is what is asked of everyone now: How can these martyrs be kept alive in a glorious way? These martyrs will be kept alive when everybody fulfills their duties with regards to Rêber Apo and the cause of freedom. To keep the martyrs alive gloriously means to live a glorious life yourself.

Although you mentioned it in your evaluations, we would like to ask you again, because recently another group of guerrillas was ambushed in the South Kurdish Balisan valley: Why does the KDP still insist on its attitude despite your many calls and the protests of the Kurdish people?

It would be wrong to talk about the KDP here, because a significant number of KDP members are uncomfortable with this situation and are not involved in this politics. The Barzanis have established their own hegemony and have created a climate of fear. That’s why the KDP members who are not comfortable with the current policy currently don´t speak out that much. But that doesn’t mean that they accept this politics. Because not everyone knows that the current politics against the PKK and the Kurdish people does not serve the Kurds. This policy has nothing to do with being Kurdish and with patriotism. That is why we should not talk about the KDP here. Because it is the Barzanis who are doing this. They are pursuing this policy for their own family interests. They associate their interests with the the Turkish state, not with the Kurdish people. They have come to think that the more they help the Turkish state, the more the PKK will suffer blows which will then leave Kurdistan only to them. They see that the Turkish state is trying to destroy the PKK, so they say, “If we stand against the PKK, the PKK will be destroyed and Kurdistan will be left only to us”.

However, throughout its history, the Turkish state has eliminated all those who rebelled against it with the support of certain collaborators only to then kill these collaborators as well. There are dozens of examples for this. The Turkish state does not discriminate between different groups of Kurds. The only thing it cares about is how to use Kurds against Kurds. This is what its policy has always been based on. Although we have put this issue on the agenda, the Barzanis still predicate themselves solely on their own interests. Yet, it is not clear how much longer they will be able to protect their interests. All the gains they have made have been achieved due to the struggle of the PKK. The Turkish state accepts the Barzanis and helps them, not for the sake of the Barzanis but only to eliminate the PKK. They get these opportunities from Turkey due to the struggle against the PKK. They did not get the means and opportunities they have today through their own struggle. The struggle of the PKK has contributed a lot to this. Now they are, so to speak, shooting themselves in the foot. I would like to warn them: They should not use these opportunities and possibilities they have gained through the PKK to destroy the PKK. The Kurdish people should not accept this either.

What they have now done in Balisan [in South Kurdistan] is obvious. They are waging a psychological war over this incident, spreading a lot of lies and misinformation to prevent the truth from being understood. According to the information we have, it were not the planes of the Turkish state that bombed our friends. KDP forces set up an ambush for our friends, attacked them, martyred two of them and took three wounded friends away with them. This is the information we have. In order to prevent this fact from being understood, they say, “The planes of the Turkish state bombed them, and then the wounded were taken away”. The reconnaissance drones of the Turkish state cannot detect our friends in Balisan. Only the KDP forces in the area can detect them and provide information regarding their presence. Otherwise, how could the reconnaissance drones of the Turkish state know that 5 people were walking through Balisan valley? This is simply impossible. All this was done by the KDP and the Barzanis. Our people need to be aware of this. If things are really the way they claim, they need to make a statement and hand over our friends to us. But so far they have neither made a statement, nor given an answer or delivered those friends to us. The families of our friends whom they had martyred before demanded the bodies of their children for months. They organized protests for this purpose, but the KDP and the Barzanis didn’t even give an answer. They kill our friends and don´t hand over their bodies, and on top of that they just deny everything. The Kurdish people need to hold them to account for this. Why don’t the KDP and the Barzanis make a statement? Why don’t they share information on this issue? Why don’t they respond? They do all this, because they don’t want their crimes to be exposed.

They martyred many of our friends in Hewlêr [Erbil] before, and they didn’t hand over their bodies either. No one knows where the bodies of these friends are. There is even a rumor saying that they constructed a building in the area where these bodies were buried. Just like the Turkish state constructed buildings in Newala Qesaba [Butchers Creek], the Barzanis are today doing the same. The intentions of the Turkish state are well know: It wants to leave the Kurdish people without their own history and values. And what do the Barzanis want to do? They also want to leave the Kurdish people and the PKK without their own history and values. Our people need to recognize this and take a stance. If they don´t, this will only continue. Then the Barzanis will cause great damage to the Kurdish people. However, the Kurdish people have reached the status of a free life in some parts of Kurdistan. If this is still being prevented in some places, this is due to the Barzanis. Just as the Turkish state claims, “We only have a problem with the PKK, not with the Kurds,” the Barzanis say, “The PKK is the cause of the Turkish state’s attacks. If it were not for the PKK, the Turkish state would not attack.” But what does all of this have to do with being Kurdish?

The Turkish state also pursues a dirty policy in North Kurdistan [East Turkey]. In addition to the dirty methods you just described, they are trying to create divisions in Kurdish politics and intensify their special war policies with a festival they organized in the Sur district in the city of Amed [Diyarbakir]. What would you like to say about these issues?

The AKP-MHP government wants to eliminate everything with the name Kurdistan or Kurdish. They are doing this openly and think that they can achieve their desired results by doing so. On this basis, the Turkish state is waging a special war in order to confuse everyone. They think that if they do this, they will be able to force everyone to surrender and thus be able to complete the genocide. For a long time already, the Turkish state has not only been against the Kurdish people but against the mountains, trees and simply all living being in Kurdistan. Its goal is to leave no living space for Kurds anywhere. Cutting down trees in places like Dersim and Botan is part of this policy. This is not simply a matter of cutting down trees and selling them. This is part of the politics of genocide. That is why the Turkish state destroys the nature. It does so consciously. This is part of its war.

For example, they want to organize a so-called festival in Sur [historical district in the city of Amed/Diyarbakir]. Those who left no stone unturned and destroyed all the houses in Sur are organizing a festival in Sur today. Kurds have nothing to do with this festival. The Turkish state´s only concern is to assimilate the Kurds. They are trying to make them forget what the state has brought upon the Kurds. They want to remove the traces of what happened in Sur and thus deceive everyone. For this reason, our people should not go to this festival. They should oppose it. Such a festival is a source of shame for Amed and Sur. For example, Türkeş once wanted to go to Amed, but the people of Amed did not accept this. They opposed him coming there and consequently Türkeş never tried to visit the city again.

When we look at today, we can see that state representatives are going to Amed again. They want to eliminate the patriotism of Amed and Kurdistan. You raze Sur to the ground, make the people there miserable, try to win them for all kinds of bad things, commit massacres, execute people in prison, resort to torture and arrests every day, use chemical weapons against the guerrillas 24/7, attack Rojava and South Kurdistan without a brake and massacre people. And then you just organize a festival in Sur. What does this mean? It means that they have an attitude of saying ‘No matter what I do, the Kurds won’t understand anyway, and I can easily make them forget what I have done’. But the Kurds are no longer the Kurds of the past. No one can make them forget their Kurdish identity. Today, Kurds are taking revenge for all they have been through and will continue to do so.

Because of the genocide policy against our movement, the ´Labor and Freedom Alliance´ was formed in Turkey. This alliance is growing bigger every day. It represents all peoples in Turkey. Therefore, the politics of Turkey is no longer being determined by the AKP, MHP and CHP, but by this alliance. Now, apart from the alliances of AKP and CHP, the ´Labor and Freedom Alliance´ has been formed. This represents a third way in politics. With each passing day, this kind of politics is getting stronger thus affecting the entire politics of Turkey. They see that no one can do politics in Turkey without this alliance and therefore consider it as dangerous. That is why they are reaching out to this alliance to weaken and neutralize the third way. They are doing this in order for the AKP-MHP to remain in power. Everyone must understand this and defeat these tactics. Therefore, everyone must take part in the ´Labor and Freedom Alliance´. Because when this alliance is grows stronger, the enemy’s games will be foiled and the fascist government will come to an end. The problems of the Kurds, the other peoples, Alevis and other groups will thus be solved. The third way, which includes the HDP and many other parties and organizations, is the only solution. Everyone knows that the HDP is the driving force for this. Everyone agrees that the HDP will play a decisive role in the upcoming elections and that it will determine the results. The goal is to bring about the fall of the AKP-MHP government and to not allow the CHP to gain power. As a response to all these efforts, the state will try to break this alliance.

In order to complete the unfinished genocide against the Kurds, both the conspiratorial forces and the capitalists in Turkey brought the AKP-MHP to power. Because the International Conspiracy means the completion of the genocide against the Kurdish people. In this regard, they have made certain achievements with the help of the AKP-MHP and they want to finalize their efforts. In other words, they will seek to complete the Kurdish genocide by destroying the PKK. Therefore, they want the AKP-MHP to stay in power. How will they try to do this? By weakening the alliance of which the HDP is a part. If they break this alliance, the HDP and the Kurds apart, then the CHP will not be able to come to power and the AKP and MHP will remain the government. This is the basis of the tactics currently being put into action. It is the MIT [Turkish intelligence service] that is carrying out these tactics.

If the CHP thinks that it will come to power by securing the votes of some Kurds, it is mistaken. They are just playing Erdoğan and Bahçeli’s games. I would like to warn everyone: Those who weaken the ´Labor and Freedom Alliance´ and the HDP are just serving the AKP-MHP and the politics of genocide. No one should do this. Everyone who sees those who are doing a service this this kinds of policy should oppose them, stop them and tell them that they shouldn´t do this.

Today, for the first time there is hope in Turkey. The forces of democracy have started to take action. This does not only have an effect on the elections but it will also determine the fate of Turkey and everyone else and solve all problems, including the Kurdish question. This is what the Turkish state wants to prevent. They can achieve certain results by shutting down the HDP or by breaking it apart, by breaking apart the Kurds. Therefore, we must strengthen the HDP and this alliance against this policy. Then the Turkish state will not be able to play these games. All their games will turn on them. It is this alliance that will determine the elections and the future of Turkey. Therefore, I would like to call on everyone to take part in this alliance, because by strengthening this alliance they can save themselves from fascism.