our interviews

november 16, 2023

First of all we would like to have a look on the situation of Abdullah Öcalan; his continuing resistance on Imrali, as well as your evaluation on the campaign with the aim of Öcalans physical freedom and a status to Kurdistan, which was was announced on October.

The isolation on Imrali is being carried out in line with the genocide policy of the Turkish state. Just as the Kurdish people are being heavily oppressed, an intense isolation is being imposed, and the voice of the people is wanted to be silenced. Also Rêber Apo [Abdullah Öcalan] is being tried to be silenced as the leader of the Kurdish people. On this basis, isolation is being imposed under false pretexts. In this respect, it can be stressed out, that isolation is a reflection of the policy in Turkey. By looking there, we can understand what the policy in Turkey is against both the Kurdish people and the democratic forces.

Both lawyers and families request meetings, but they are not allowed to see the prisoners on Imrali. There is no justification for this attitude of the state. The unspoken justification is the policy of genocide against the Kurdish people. As part of the genocide policy, Rêber Apo is kept in isolation, silenced and not allowed to speak. In the same way, the Kurdish people are under pressure, they are silenced, they are not allowed to speak and this is how the genocide policy against the Kurdish people is carried out. The connection of the AKP with the Kurdish policy and the genocide policy is clear. It is not about any prisoner or convict meeting with his family or meeting with his lawyers. It is about the Turkish state’s policy towards the Kurdish people.

There is a struggle against this policy. This struggle began when the international conspiracy [October 9, 1998, when Rêber Apo was forced to leave the Middle East. The following odyssey ended on February 15, 1999, when Rêber Apo was abducted and taken to the prison island of Imrali.] against Rêber Apo. The struggle against the international conspiracy was initiated under the slogan: “You cannot darken our sun”. Since then, there has been a struggle against both the conspiracy and isolation. This struggle has gradually turned into a struggle for the Kurdish people in general and for the democratic forces all over the world. Because the policies and attacks against Rêber Apo are attacks against the Kurdish people and humanity.

Today, the struggle of the Kurdish people has reached an international dimension. The peoples of the world see Rêber Apo as their leader, the democratic forces, intellectuals and socialists do the same. In this regard, we can say that 25 years of resistance of Rêber Apo and the resistance against genocide and conspiracy in the Turkish Republic have brought the struggle against the international conspiracy and isolation to a new dimension. It has reached a very important point. The struggle of the peoples and democratic forces of the world against the conspiracy in the form of the newly announced campaign on October 10 clearly shows the level that the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom and for the freedom of Rêber Apo will reach in the future.

By the development of this new stage of struggle, it is no longer possible to keep Rêber Apo in captivity. No matter what they do, they can no longer keep the lock on those doors. Those doors will be opened and Rêber Apo will regain his freedom. This is our struggle as well as the struggle of the peoples of Turkey, as well as the world struggle for democracy. The struggle to free Rêber Apo is the struggle against isolation and the struggle for democracy in Turkey. In this respect, we really would like to congratulate our international friends and our people on their successful struggle. They have taken a very important step. Still in many parts of the world, peoples, democracy forces, freedom forces, women, youth are participating in the campaign for the freedom of Rêber Apo and they are constantly expanding this campaign. In this way, they are not only struggling for the liberation of Rêber Apo; they are also struggling for the spread of his paradigm throughout the world and for the development of the peoples’ struggle for freedom. The more the peoples of the world get to know Rêber Apo, the more they will struggle for freedom, the more effective they will struggle for democracy, the more powerful they will struggle for socialism. The struggle for the freedom of Rêber Apo has turned into an ideological as well as political struggle, a struggle for the freedom of peoples, of the oppressed, and of women. This fact needs to be seen.

This multifaceted struggle has emerged around Rêber Apo. This is not only due to his personality, but also because of the paradigm that he has put forward. It no paradigm just for the Kurds, it is about all humanity. Since it is related to all democratic and freedom forces, the struggle to liberate Rêber Apo has become a struggle for humanity, a struggle for democracy, freedom and socialism. This struggle, will grow like an avalanche, because it has such a character, such a nature. The 25-year struggle against the international conspiracy, the struggle against isolation has produced very important results at this stage. No struggle so far has been in vain.

Rêber Apo’s struggle for freedom has indeed produced great results. This may not be sufficiently understood today, but the more the struggle around him evolves, the more is this understanding developing. Like I said, it is a struggle to bring all humanity to a free life, a democratic life, and that it is an important step, and in this respect. Especially next year this will increase even more. I would like salute once again those who started the campaign on this basis; I wish them all, everyone who has worked for this campaign, success in their work.

Shortly there will be the march of Gemlik [Originally a rally in June 2022 aiming for Gemlik, the city from where ships depart to the prison island of Imrali. The rally was forbidden and several people were arrested.]. Already before you have called on the people to join this march. What can you tell us about it and its meaning?

The Gemlik march is important. It is a march for Rêber Apo, a march for the struggle against isolation. In fact, it is a march of struggle against genocide. That is why it is so important. The Kurdish people claim their leader. A people that cannot claim its leader, if it cannot claim its organization, how will it be liberated? Peoples struggle for freedom with their leaders and organizations. Without a leadership, without an organization, there can be no struggle. Especially if this leadership has become the soul of the whole people and organization, how can a struggle be waged without such a leadership? Neither the organization can wage a struggle nor the people can wage a struggle. In this respect, of course, our movement and our people have been protecting Rêber Apo at the highest level for 25 years and will continue to do so.

But it is very important not only for Kurds but also for the peoples of Turkey and the democratic forces of Turkey. If fascism is carrying out so many attacks to genocide the Kurds, if fascism is institutionalized for this reason, if it has become so arbitrary, so reckless, to suppress the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom, for the genocide policy, then not only Kurds but also the democratic forces in Turkey should support the Gemlik march. They should be part of this march.

The struggle for democracy in Turkey cannot be waged without understanding the position of the Rêber Apo, nor without understanding the Kurdish reality. How can there be a struggle for democracy in Turkey without embracing the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom and its leader? Can there be democracy without Kurds? Democracy cannot develop in Turkey, when Kurds are genocided in the same time. It is simply not possible. Moreover, democracy is being opposed because every democratic step benefits the Kurds. We emphasized this many times. The reason why there is hostility to democracy in Turkey is so that the Kurds do not benefit from democracy. Whenever the smallest democratic right emerges, it is immediately attacked so that the Kurds cannot benefit. In this respect, of course, the youth and women of the Kurdish people should join the Gemlik march from everywhere. There should be more flow to Gemlik from the metropolises; from Istanbul, Bursa, Izmir and nearby places. There should be a flow from all over Kurdistan. All hindrances should definitely be broken down. Even a march that is organized just to show an attitude in the hope that democracy and struggle will develop is attacked so much; so how will freedom be won? How will the freedom of the Kurdish people be won? In this respect, the Kurdish people need to be determined and insistent on this issue.

We see the insistence and determination of the people. Everywhere people say, that they will march to Gemlik. Women and young people say they will march, the democratic political sphere, the democratic forces are embracing it, and say that they will join the march. This march must be part of the struggle for democracy.

Right now there is a lock, a barricade in front of democracy. How will democratization develop without breaking this? The Turkish state prevents marches, it prevents demonstrations and meetings. Only marches and meetings that support the government are allowed, thus the institutionalization of fascism continues. In this respect, the march to Gemlik is also a march against genocidal colonialism and against fascism. There was going to be a march last year, but there was Corona and other factors; so it was postponed. But this time there will be a strong embracement of Rêber Apo. Especially because the campaign is so advanced in the world, the Gemlik march should be considered as a part of this campaign. Therefore, undoubtedly the Turkish state will try to prevent it. It is a fascist power, but fascism cannot be surrendered to, it must be fought against, a price must be paid. This fascism cannot be overthrown without paying the price. So we cannot surrender. Surrendering to this fascism means the end of the Kurdish people. In this respect, we believe that the Kurdish people, the youth, who have embraced their leader throughout the last 25 years, will embrace their leader and participate strongly in this march. And of course again, the democratic forces of Turkey should also be a part of it. If they are so indifferent to the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom, to the policy being carried out on the Kurdish people’s leader, their struggle for democracy in Turkey cannot be credible. The struggle waged by those who remain indifferent is not a struggle for democracy. They are deceiving the society. In this respect, I call on both the Kurdish people and their international friends, the struggle for democracy in Turkey, to participate strongly in this march.

We are now approaching November 27, the anniversary of the founding of the PKK. Looking at the time then and now, what has changed since the beginning of this struggle? What important decisions were made when this party was founded?

Firstly, I congratulate Rêber Apo and our people on this occasion. While saluting Rêber Apo, who brought our party to this day, we also remember our martyrs with gratitude and respect. It is absolutely necessary to commemorate our martyrs, who have led our party to wage a successful struggle for 45 years and bring it to where it is today, from a small group, to affecting the four parts of Kurdistan as well as the Middle East, and to realize success by walking in their footsteps.

The founder of this party is Rêber Apo. He did not take an organization from anyone, did not take an opportunity, did not inherit an opportunity. Believing only in himself, he saw that the Kurdish people were under colonization. He saw that they were being subjected to genocide. Feeling with great anger the struggle of a people who were wanted to be genocided, feeling the pain of that genocide, seeing that the Kurdish people were wanted to be genocided, he embarked on this struggle with that anger and with that responsibility. In this respect, the most fundamental fact underlying the fact that Rêber Apo has developed the struggle so much since the first day is that he felt the genocide policy on the Kurdish people deeply, in all his cells. That is why Rêber Apo said “Kurdistan is a colony”. He also said the following, “Kurdistan is wanted to be turned into an expansion area for Turkishness”. In other words, he said that Kurds are wanted to be destroyed, and with this analyze he started this struggle.

We, all of us, agreed with Rêber Apo. We agreed with his thinking. Whoever joint this movement, joint the idea, methods, and leadership of Rêber Apo. This an important aspect. The organization of the first group started from this point on. It came by forming a will, and according stance and personality. This was mainly Rêber Apo’s achievement and is the reason, why the PKK is always connected to him. Rêber Apo also represented this idea with his own actions. He acted accordingly to what he said and thought, because he lived as he said and thought, because he struggled as he said and thought, a group gathered around him. Since then, it has grown and become what it is today. In this respect, of course, when defining the PKK, it cannot be defined or understood without defining and understanding Rêber Apo. There is a close interrelation between thoughts and understanding of the leader.

There are various parties and organizations that from time to time have been fragmented, divided, shifted here and there, but it is not possible to do this with the PKK. Because the PKK has been shaped by the personality, identity and spirit of Rêber Apo since its foundation. In this respect, it is not possible to create a PKK that is separate from the thoughts of him, different from his thoughts, different from his policies, or to understand the PKK differently.

Rêber Apo has reached the people, his ideas spread all over the world, and although the conspirators tried very hard, they could not separate him from the people. Not only did he shape the organization, he also created this people from the ashes. The fact that those people are resisting until today also comes from this reality. In the spirit and stance of this people there reality and influence of Rêber Apo can be seen. Our people are surviving despite all the pressures, they continue to survive and will continue to survive. It also the same about the movement. They may attack the PKK in every possible way, but they will never be able to break the spirit, stance, idea and will of this struggle.

When Rêber Apo has started this struggle, he did this in a socialist tradition. When he started his struggle to become the leader of the Kurdish people, he did so by trying to become a socialist leader, because at the beginning that was the potential he saw in the Kurdish people. On the way to achieve freedom, it seemed like socialism has always been an essential part and was necessary for the Kurdish people. It was not possible to get on the way of freedom without socialism. In the reality of the Kurdish people, there can not be any other ideology followed to protect the own nation within Kurdistan, because it has been divided into four parts. Into regions that are dominated by foreign hegemonic powers, through the help of many collaborators. It is not easy to create a people’s struggle for freedom in the Middle East. It is just possible to create an struggle for freedom, a successful struggle for freedom in the Middle East, when it is based on socialism, on the brotherhood of the different people and when it is a joint struggle of the democratic forces.

In the 1990s, when real socialism was collapsing and the Soviets were disintegrating, Rêber Apo said “insisting on socialism is insisting on being human”. We insisted on the struggle for the freedom of this people by insisting on socialism. Waging a struggle by following a different ideology or analysis would have made us face genocide.

When Rêber Apo analyzed the conspiracy that was aimed against him, on the one hand he saw, that it was planned on an international level and on the other hand it clearly showed, that it was a conspiracy of the capitalist modernity by the hegemonic powers. It is not only a conspiracy against Rêber Apo, it is a conspiracy against all Kurds. It is part of the concept of a Kurdish genocide. From this point of view, Rêber Apo’s analysis deepened in Imrali and he became further immersed in socialism. He realized that socialism is the only possible way of liberation for humanity. In other words, one cannot be human without being a socialist. Rêber Apo has become the greatest socialist in world history.
Without the freedom of women, there can be no socialism. Based on this understanding Rêber Apo is today’s pioneer of socialism. Accordingly it is our most essential task to make Rêber Apo’s ideas popular around the world and show his proposals to all the people. That is an important responsibility to lift. On the basis of the three pillars – freedom of women, social ecology and democratic society – created by Rêber Apo, his philosophy is spread around the globe.

While the world is speaking about the war in Gaza, the war in Kurdistan is also continuing. What can you tell us about the progression of war?

Since February 2011, there has been a widespread war in the South Kurdish Medya Defense Zones [regions controlled by HPG and YJA-Star guerrilla forces]. Since then, the Turkish army has used all the means at its disposal, both in terms of technology and in terms of its relations with international forces as well as with local Kurdish collaborators, but it has not been successful until today. Such a long time that they are waging war, and still they are not successful. Yes, they have built positions on some mountain peaks, but they are isolated and cannot control their surroundings because there are many tunnels that have been built in the last years by the intense work of our comrades there. On the one hand, the guerrillas are fighting the enemy, on the other hand, they continue to work on the expansion of the tunnels. They are answering the attacks of the Turkish army, with the tactic of moving teams. These teams are a very essential part of the resistance.

Today there is also a large tunnels war being waged in Gaza. Comrade Cemal spoke about this a few days ago. It is now three years, that the Kurdish people are waging such a war against the Turkish state, but there has never been an international outcry about the Turkish army’s use of poison gas and chemical weapons. Everybody remained silent. Right now there are protests all over the world, exposing the war of Israel. At the same time, the international institutions and the international public opinion remain silent about the use of chemical weapons by the Turkish state in Kurdistan, although there are so many continuous attacks.

It is said that the state of Israel has used so many bombs in the Gaza Strip until now, which together would be the power of two atomic bombs. It can easily be said that the Turkish state has used ten times the number of bombs in the Medya Defense Zones. The war between the state of Israel and Hamas is continuing since about a month. The war in the South Kurdish Medya Defense Zones is being waged since three years. Every day without a break. Still the resistance is very widespread and it are essentially the moving teams that prevent a further approach of the Turkish army.

The Medya Defense Zones are resisting, the people are resisting and all over Turkey there is a significant resistance. Lately there have been some actions of the guerrilla in the North Kurdish area of Serhed. Although the Turkish state is attacking on every front, they still remain without success. It is now dozens of years that they are waging a dirty war and are getting support by multiple international forces of Europe, America and of the whole NATO. They say that the war that Turkey is waging is a ‘legitimate interest of self-defense’.

This struggle and resistance were formed by the people. It has created a new reality for the society, which is the most significant achievement of the resistance. Out continuing struggle and resistance will break the Turkish state and on the basis of free Kurdish people, the democratization of Turkey and the Middle East will evolve.

In the ongoing war KDP is playing a crucial role as a collaborative force. What are the latest evolvements on this front?

There is no point in highlighting what the KDP has done again. It is obvious what they are doing, what kind of policy they are pursuing. The evidence is openly available. What is needed is the appropriate attitude. It depends on the attitude of the Kurdish people and democratic intellectuals. Recently, there have been calls for both the KDP and the PKK to make peace. By doing so, the actions of the KDP are normalized. This must be prevented. The current situation needs to be well understood and analyzed.

The KDP has been helping the Turkish state in every possible way for a long time. What the KDP is doing now is to provide new opportunities for the Turkish state. The KDP is also mobilizing its forces in these areas so that the Turkish state can dominate these areas. This approach must stop. Those who do not intervene show their real interests. We should learn from our history. I would like to ask all Kurdish political parties, intellectuals and artists: “If the KDP is not stopped today, when will it stop? If any other party had approached in the same way that the KDP is doing now, what would have been the reactions? What attitude would have been taken?”

The other day, someone who knows nothing but PKK enmity, went to England and held a meeting. He said that the PYD stole the revolution in Rojava. What a shameless guy. Of whom did they ‘steal the revolution’? The people mobilized, and the Kurds controlled the areas where they lived, then when Daeş [ISIS] came, they fought it and spread the system of self-government. The fact that a KDP member stands up and says that the PYD stole the revolution in Rojava and says that on the basis of this, the Turkish state is right in its attacks, its legitimization reveals what the reality is. Therefore, I don’t want to say much more than that.

You have already mentioned the ongoing war in Gaza; how does the Kurdish Freedom Movement evaluate this war? How do you analyze the position of Turkey in this war?

The war in Gaza is really being waged in a very ugly way. What Hamas is doing is surely unacceptable, but what Israel is doing right now is really inhumane. It is burning and destroying everywhere without even caring about women, children or the elderly. This is unacceptable. Of course, it is necessary to stand against this. But we need to be consistent in standing against it. Those who do not accept crimes against humanity need to oppose it correctly and should do so consistently.

The Turkish state is saying that they take the side of the Palestinians, but it embraces Hamas. Of course, the attack on the Palestinians needs to be opposed. But the Turkish state’s support for the Palestinians actually weakens the support for the Palestinian struggle. It does not support the Palestinian struggle, because it looks like a fascist, a mass murderer is standing by the Palestinians. This is of course a situation that weakens the Palestinian struggle. Can a people waging a just struggle like the Palestinians side with a fascist government? What did Turkey do during the time self-governance resistances? Didn’t it destroy whole cities? Didn’t it demolish Nusaybin, Cizre, Şırnak? Didn’t the Turkish state burn people alive in basements? Didn’t they kill women and children in the streets? The bodies of murdered children were kept in refrigerators. Now such a state goes and claims to defend the Palestinians. They say, that they are doing the same thing. This is not embracing Palestine, this is overshadowing the Palestinian cause. Today the Israeli state kills children and women. But let’s look at Erdoğan for a second. A few years ago he said, “We will do what is necessary whether it is a woman or a child”. He said it with great anger and later showed, that it was not just a saying. They killed both women and children. Hundreds and thousands of civilians were massacred.

In this respect, of course, this reality of the AKP government must be well exposed. Erdoğan goes and speaks about defending the Palestinian cause. In reality he is destroying it. What did Erdoğan do in Rojava? He occupied Afrin. 500 civilians were martyred in the resistance and so many fighters were also martyred in this time. If they hadn’t withdrawn the population, the Turkish state would have leveled the whole of Afrin to the ground. This is certain.

The AKP’s embrace of Palestine is a situation that weakens the Palestinian cause, it weakens its credibility. Israel is already saying “What are you talking about, you are doing the same thing yourself”. Can it be right that a force that is itself so immoral puts itself before you? There are many people and a lot of democratic forces defending the cause of the Palestinian people, but the AKP government is not one of them. They are not interested in the cause of the people, they just follow their own interest. In fact, by doing this, the Turkish state wants to get the support of various Arab powers in the Middle East and genocide the Kurds. At the end Erdoğan is doing all this to genocide the Kurds. Everyone should be aware this. Otherwise, the AKP’s problem does not care about Palestine. It is looking at it for justification. It will carry out all kinds of attacks on Rojava, and then it will come out and say, “Those people did it, and I am doing it too.”

The AKP government, the Turkish state lives such a reality of dirty war. There is no credibility in anything they say. It is not to defend the peoples, not to defend human values. It is purely to gain political advantage for itself, to put pressure on the Kurds based on it, to put pressure on the democratic forces.

Talking about the politics in Turkey, it can be said that there are some changes regarding the internal affairs. Does this have any influence on the movement?

This Minister of Interior has been in office for 5-6 months. Under his responsibility, twenty thousand operations were launched in this short period of time. Among these operations, the war in the Medya Defense Zones was never mentioned. These are operations carried out by the gendarmerie and police and 98% of these operations were against civilians, HDP members, youth and women. They oppressed the villagers, all the peoples.

The interesting thing is that 20,000 operations against terrorismare carried out and at the same time say they say ‘there is no terrorism anymore, we have ended it’. How can you say you have brought an end to terrorism when you carry out 20,000 operations in 5-6 months?

In Turkey it is said that, Süleyman Soylu was the bad cop, and that now this Ali Yerlikaya has become the good cop. The reason why Ali Yerlikaya has become so prominent is because of his covering up of gang organization. He just focuses on the oppression against the democratic forces and the Kurdish people. Some opposition forces were also instrumental in this. The Turkish state is a state of special warfare. Everything they do is in favor of special warfare. Special warfare means deceiving the society, deceiving the world, turning the truth inside out. Now the Saturday Mothers have been released. Who was preventing their actions until now? Erdoğan was preventing them. On Erdoğan’s instructions, the Saturday Mothers were prevented from entering the streets to protest. Erdoğan said, “We are getting too much exposure, it is not a big deal, let them be allowed.” There is also the resistance of the Saturday Mothers in this. Because when they are persistent, the government is exposed.

The policy against the Saturday Mothers was really harsh for a long time, now they released a little bit of the pressure. The repression at first place was clearly a message.

They waged so much war against the Kurdish people, against the democratic forces, that forbid even the most basic forms of protests. In this way, they created a deterrent pressure and fear in society, to prevent them from struggling. But because of the continued exposure of this policy, they had to take a step back.

No one should fall for their special war. The governmental opposition is cutting its own branch. By doing so, they normalize the attacks against them. We have already heard what this one man said on TV. Who does the Ankara Security Directorate report to? Ali Yerlikaya said to this. “If there was a riot like July 15th, we would simply kill them”. This is Ali Yerlikaya’s approach. He spends all his efforts on the Kurds and the democratic forces. If he would go against the gangs he should start with Süleyman Soylu.

The democratic forces and the left forces in Turkey cannot fight against fascism without understanding the Turkish state’s special warfare. The PKK wages a successful struggle and survives because it understands the special war. Otherwise, if the special war is not understood, we would also be dragged into its tail, we would also fall for its tricks, and those who fall for them can easily be destroyed.

Looking at the Constitutional Court. They make decisions, but then do not comply to it. The Constitutional Court receives 100 decisions, but does just accept one or two of them. The Constitutional Court in Turkey will become a part of the fascist power and will be known as such if they continue like this. In order not to be perceived as such, it objects in one or two cases. However, recently it approves an even worse article, an article that criminalizes incitement, encouragement and propaganda. It is a very elastic law. Anyone can be imprisoned with it.

The Constitutional Court overturned the decision on the Member of Parliament Can Atalay (TİP). They wanted him out. In response, the Court of Cassation took a very harsh stance, even blaming the Constitutional Court and demanding that its members be put on trial. This is an interesting thing, unprecedented in the world. This actually shows the crisis and chaos in Turkey. Fascism is having so much difficulty in its struggle against the democratic forces and the Kurdish people that it has come to this situation. If they did not have difficulty in the struggle, they would not have taken such an attitude.

I remember our Constitution teacher at school was Mümtaz Soysal. Mümtaz Soysal today is very important in Turkey. He was known as a professor of the Constitution. In his lectures, the decisions of the Constitutional Court were clearly evaluated. Everyone had to abide by them back then. How many universities are there in Turkey? There are 100, I don’t know how many, faculties of law, political sciences. Today these are just a few minutes in a lecture.

All professors have said that the decisions of the Constitutional Court are final. Interestingly, now they say, no, the decisions of the Constitutional Court are not final. The state has come to such a situation. Now Erdoğan is saying that the constitution is contradictory, we need a new constitution. Not only in this issue, but also in other issues, you don’t implement the article of this constitution that you say is bad. The reality is, that they will make a even worse constitution. When AKP came to power, they softened some laws in order to harmonize with the European Union and to show themselves as democratic. Now they will probably reverse them and make them worse. The new constitution will not be more democratic or more liberal than the old one. Neither will it be more liberal than the 1961 Constitution, nor will it be more liberal than the others. In this respect, everyone is already saying; either you implement a bad one so that we can see the new one. You don’t even implement the bad one.

In this respect, a very interesting situation has emerged. Even this reveals what the crisis in Turkey is. This is again related to the struggle of the democratic forces and the Kurdish people. The reason why they are in this situation is because they are worried that the Kurds will benefit from the smallest democratic right. If the problem was not the Kurdish problem, if there was no genocide policy being carried out against the Kurds, they would not be in this situation.

The democratic forces in Turkey do not understand. They want to eliminate and suffocate even the crumbs of democracy in Turkey for fear that the Kurds will benefit. Because, they say, if it happens, the Kurds will benefit. They are already saying, what will happen if Duran Kalkan becomes an MP? Will the Supreme Electoral Council give its approval? Is that how it is? They are in such an approach that deceives the society and deceives the world. They really don’t know what to do anymore. But as I said, they don’t see the reasons. This is of course very important. These reasons need to be seen. Why are they doing this? Why don’t they comply? Why don’t they release Kavala? Because the Kurds will benefit if there is a stretch. They are doing it so that the Kurds don’t benefit. They even put the Saturday Mothers under such pressure.

In this respect, whoever wants to fight for democracy, whoever wants to fight for freedom must see this reality and fight for democracy together with the Kurdish people. Without raising the struggle for democracy together with the Kurdish people, nobody can be a democrat, nobody can fight for democracy, they deceive themselves. Even if they say they do, they cannot get results. Because as long as the Kurdish question is not solved, as long as the genocide policy is implemented against the Kurds, this oppression regime will continue. Because they will put all kinds of pressure on the Kurds, they will put all kinds of anti-democratic policies into effect in case the Kurds are injured. This reality really needs to be grasped. We repeat it very often. But we repeat it because it is a subject worth repeating. On this basis, everyone needs to better grasp this fascist reality that has emerged, what this situation is.