July 28, 2024
The total lack of communication with the leader of the Kurdish people, Abdullah Ocalan, continues. Last week, Bese Hozat, co-chair of the KCK Executive Council, shared new information in this regard. What does this information mean for the struggle against isolation?
The information that Comrade Bese announced was indeed important. When this information reached us, we were really outraged. It became clear once again that the Turkish state does not recognize this movement, nor does it recognize Rêber Apo. Also, it was revealed once again that the Turkish state is a blackmailing state. They try to blackmail us through Rêber Apo. “We can make him meet with his family and his lawyer, but only if this and that are done,” they say. This clearly shows that they have no interest in granting him his legal rights.
The way in which they make such an ‘offer’, shows clearly that they have no intention of negotiating. Of course, they know that this offer will most likely not be accepted, it is incorrect to assume otherwise; they know our movement well. Making such an offer is an immoral step. Of course, this offer, this blackmail, was rejected by our movement. This is the attitude of the PKK, the attitude of Rêber Apo, and the attitude of our people. Our people, leadership, and movement have shown for 50 years that we have been waging a great struggle for freedom and democracy, an honorable struggle. It is clear to everyone that such blackmail would be rejected. However, why are they making such an offer and showing such an approach? In reality, they are being forced. As we stated before, the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) is being forced to take steps and make some statements. The Turkish state is also being forced, so it wants to negotiate on unrealistic terms, knowing its conditions will not be met, in order to portray the PKK as the unwilling party.
Of course, such approaches carry no weight. Our people and their friends around the world know how sensitive our movement is to Rêber Apo. The issue we are most sensitive about is Rêber Apo. I can easily claim that no people or movement in history has ever embraced its leader to such an extent. Indeed, the level of our people’s embrace of our leader has been very high. It was the devotion of our martyrs and sacrifices to the leader that created this.
Our movement has been waging a struggle with great devotion to this leader for fifty years. It showed great devotion to the leader, even after he was taken into captivity. It walked on the path that he had paved and did not show the slightest hesitation in this regard. Yes, after our leader was abducted, liquidators who emerged from among us tried to abandon the path of the leader. But our movement took a firm stance against this. That is why the CPT and the Turkish state are experiencing such pressure. Of course, our movement immediately rejected this recent offer. Why would they think we would accept such an offer? Do they think we are that weak? Of course, our movement rejected it. Comrade Bese clearly pointed out our attitude. We will struggle for our leader to gain his legal rights to meet with his lawyers and family, that is, for the lifting of isolation and the realization of Rêber Apo’s freedom. This struggle will continue to grow, and in the course of it, the lawyers and family will definitely be allowed to meet with him. Not only will the meeting be ensured, but the way to the physical freedom of our leader will also be paved. Everyone needs to be aware of this.
Of course, the CPT and the Turkish state are trying to prevent our struggle. The United Nations (UN) and its related institutions held a meeting on this issue, in which the Turkish state was in denial, claiming that it does not impose isolation. It stated that there are only some prohibitions in place, or more precisely, that there are prohibitions based on disciplinary penalties. This is, of course, demagogy. The whole world knows that this is false. Our people know; everyone knows. Why is it that the leader is taking so many disciplinary penalties? What do they claim that our leader is doing? We know him, and we know his approach. He would not take any approach that would lead to disciplinary punishment.
Of course, for them, Rêber Apo is the biggest enemy. He is the one who launched the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. He educated the Kurdish people. He is the one who has kept the struggle going until today. They are angry at him for this. This is the reason why they punish him. That`s why these disciplinary punishments are being thrown around without justification. They are fabricated; they file some disciplinary punishments just so he is not granted his fundamental human rights.
Our struggle against this continues and will continue in the future. The statements of the Turkish state at that meeting in Europe were ridiculous. Nobody believed them. That’s why the delegations there are asking so many questions of the Turkish delegation. However, it should not be forgotten that all individuals who are part of these delegations are part of the concept of special warfare. None of them are people who really care about law, justice and such things. The Deputy Director General of the Detention Houses was there. Deputy Directors General of Detention Houses are usually men of special warfare, men of the state. They manage prisons on the instructions of that state, not the Ministry of Justice. I mean, yes, they operate under the Ministry of Justice, but there is a special team there, they run them.
Rêber Apo has been in captivity for 26 years. The other day, Ercan Kanar, one of the first lawyers of Rêber Apo, was making an assessment. He was evaluating whether aggravated life imprisonment is unlawful and that Rêber Apo needs to be released. He pointed out that the law based on which Rêber Apo is still imprisoned was enacted after he was abducted and therefore would not be legally applicable. That is to say, laws are not being applied according to the notion of legality. Accordingly, the application of this law against Rêber Apo is invalid.
In Turkey, when it comes to Rêber Apo, there are exclusive laws and one-man regulations. In other words, all practices are directed solely against Rêber Apo. No practice against him has anything to do with the law, the constitution, or the bylaws. They are the policies of state policy, Kurdish enmity, and hostility towards Rêber Apo. We will continue the struggle against these policies of the Turkish state.
There is already a lot of pressure, but yes, we will increase it even more. We will continue our struggle everywhere. For us, the struggle to physically liberate Rêber Apo and the struggle for the liberation of the Kurdish people are intertwined. In this respect, we will raise this struggle even more. As Comrade Bese said, we will raise our struggle even more. Our people will do this. We will definitely liberate Rêber Apo. This is our promise to our people and to history.
July 14th marks the anniversary of the great death fast. As one of those who took part and barely survived this action, what did the July 14 resistance contribute to today’s struggle?
First of all, I commemorate with gratitude and respect all the prison martyrs and all the martyrs of the revolution in general, by commemorating Hayri, Kemal, Akif and Ali, the martyrs of July 14. I also commemorate with gratitude and respect our 33 people who were massacred in Zap and Salih Kandal, one of our first cadres who was martyred in 1979, with gratitude and respect. I also commemorate with gratitude and respect the 33 people who were massacred on July 20, 2015. The struggle of these socialist youth will live on in our struggle. We will keep their memory alive in a free Kurdistan, a democratic Turkey, and a democratic Middle East.
The resistance of July 14 is, of course, an important resistance in our history. Comrade Duran Kalkan asked these questions in his latest interview: What would have happened without this resistance? Which negative developments would have occurred? He later answered his questions and pointed out that July 14th should always be evaluated with these questions in mind. It is very crucial to evaluate it in this way. On July 14th, persecution and torture were widespread in Kurdistan. Our movement had retreated from the country after suffering a heavy blow. Rêber Apo was trying to recover the movement. There were more than a hundred confessors in the prisons. Esat Oktay was bragging that he would make everyone confess. So much so that he was saying that he would make those in prison unable to come out. In such an environment, and during such a difficult period for the people of Kurdistan, and for our struggle, the realization of the July 14th resistance reversed many things. While the enemy wanted to paralyze us, the July 14 resistance reversed this from within the prison. It made a great contribution to the struggle of the movement, and increased the belief of our people in the freedom and independence of Kurdistan. This was very significant.
July 14 contributed a lot to the struggle of the Kurdish people. It was necessary for the Kurdish people. There was a reality in which the Kurdish people was cornered; they were unable to fight the oppression, and they were frightened and intimidated. July 14th was a response to all this. July 14th played a decisive role in the creation of a new Kurdish identity, a new Kurdish society, a new understanding of struggle, and a new philosophy of life. The most important thing for a society is to have a proper philosophy of life and struggle. The standards of life must be high. Only in this way can a people be free, democratized, have their own country, and have their own identity. In this respect, the greatest result of the July 14 resistance is that it created a philosophy of life and struggle that will last for many years, decades, or maybe even centuries. It has put a new philosophy of life and struggle in front of Kurdish society. This is it, what makes it so significant.
This is actually Rêber Apo’s philosophy of life and struggle. From the very first day, Rêber Apo tried to instill this philosophy of struggle in the group that gathered around him, the PKK. All his discourses, all his life, and all his evaluations were directed towards this. Those who launched the July 14th resistance have lived through a very concrete example of this. With their own lives, reality, and stance, they have revealed what this philosophy of life and struggle is, and they have created a very important turning point in Kurdish history. This is very important. Kemal once said, “I love life enough to die for it.” He said, “I don’t accept a life that is not worth dying for, as life.” If there is to be a life, it must be worth dying for. One must put one’s existence on the line for such a life. Kemal put his life on the line and struggled to create a life to die for. Kemal had a very high love of life. To express that you love life so much that you would die for it is the highest form of contentment, love, and enthusiasm.
It is very important to give meaning to life, to this understanding of life within the PKK, and to show the Kurdish people that there is a life worth living. This is a great achievement. They have shown that even in the most difficult conditions, one can fight and win. This is very important. Especially in a geography and environment like Kurdistan, where the struggle is very difficult, putting forward such a philosophy of life is a great achievement for the people of Kurdistan and for Kurdish history. These achievements will lead us to victory. Based on these achievements, we will achieve the freedom of the Kurdish people. In this respect, while evaluating the July 14th death fast, it is necessary to understand, explain, and comprehend this philosophy of life and struggle well. When the July 14th resistors’ philosophy of life and struggle is explained and comprehended, when it becomes the spirit and thought of society, the spirit and thought of the youth and women, no one can stop the struggle of those people. That struggle will, without a doubt, achieve success. If the struggle has been continuing uninterruptedly for 50 years, 40 years since July 14th, if it has been standing despite all kinds of attacks, this is precisely due to the resistance of July 14th and the philosophy of life and struggle.
On the occasion of July 14, of course, many evaluations can be made. Many aspects of July 14 can be put forward. And it has indeed had many different impacts on today’s struggle. This needs to be emphasized and well understood. If this is not understood, other evaluations of this struggle will not gain depth; they will be temporary. For example, Hayri requested that the word “indebted” be written on his tombstone. And this is from a person who gave everything for this country and for these people. Hayri’s patriotism was very deep. He was a friend of ours who lived the deepest form of Kurdish patriotism. It was that patriotism, that deep patriotic passion, that led Hayri to take such an action.
On July 3, the fascist Turkish army, in cooperation with the KDP, launched a comprehensive new invasion attack on the areas of Metina and Zap. The freedom guerrilla is halting these attacks with the spirit of the July 14th resistance, as you mentioned. What can be said about this latest comprehensive attack?
Indeed, there is a comprehensive attack, and at the same time, there is a heroic resistance. I commemorate with respect and gratitude my young female and male comrades who heroically resisted in this resistance, who were martyred, and who demonstrated the greatest sacrifice and resistance in history. Through their resistance, they really create enthusiasm and excitement. They reinforce our faith. This is very significant. Our young comrades reinforce the belief that the Kurdish people will come to freedom. A people with such sacrificial youth will surely achieve a free and democratic life.
Their heroism is unparalleled. A person can show heroism in a one-day or two-day conflict. She/he can endure hardship. Those are momentary reflexes. But these friends of ours, on the other hand, are bombarded with all kinds of bombs every day, and this has been going on for years. They are attacked with poisonous gases and thermobaric bombs. All kinds of weapons are used. But against this, these young friends have been fighting, resisting, and defying with great enthusiasm. In those difficult conditions, they go against the enemy with determination and creativity. There are no such heroic deeds in history.
This needs not only to be understood but also felt. What difficulties are these friends facing? In what circumstances do they resist? All Kurdish people should see this. There have never been fedayîs who resisted like this in the world. Of course, in many countries and many places, there have been fedaî resistances, sacrifices have been made, and great heroism has been shown. But especially in the last three years, these young friends of ours have been fighting against the enemy in tunnels, and with the tactics of mobility, they have brought the meaning of resistance to a new level. This is a source of pride. All Kurdish people should be proud to have such sons and daughters. They are raising the claim of the Kurdish people for their homeland and identity, as well as for freedom and democracy. They are creating such a reality. These young people are doing this. Kurdish youth are doing this. For five years already, there has been enormous attacks by the Turkish state. First the fascist state attacked Xakurke, then it attacked Heftanin and Gare. They were supposed to free captured soldiers and agents in Gare, but they suffered a great defeat. Then they attacked Avashin, Zap, Metina, and the whole Behdinan area. They have been attacking for three years with all their means, but our comrades resist this. They do not complain about any hardship, hunger, or thirst. Our friends are giving the enemy a hard time with the limited weapons they have.
Of course, since July 3, the struggle has reached a new dimension. The enemy says that it will seal the deal. They have dragged the KDP into it. The cities dominated by the KDP are now under the influence of the Turkish state. In fact, in a way, this attack is the attack of the KDP. At this stage, it should be understood as an attack by the KDP. In other words, when they say they will “seal the deal,” they mean “we have brought the KDP to the peak of betrayal; we are using it in every aspect.” This is how we should understand what they said. Bamerne, Amediye, Dereluk, and Sheladize, on the southern side, these were cities dominated by the KDP. Now they are dominated by the Turkish state. Together with the KDP, they have encircled the guerrilla from there. This is a siege together with the KDP. Previously, the siege was partly the siege of the Turkish state. But now the KDP is also part of the siege. The Turkish state is besieging together with the KDP. This is a new process. The Turkish state wanted to land on Bahar Hill but they failed because of the resistance of our friends. They failed to target the hill. However, now that they have taken the KDP completely into this siege, of course they have targeted Bahar Hill. We know that geography well; Bahar Hill is very steep, so the Turkish army couldn’t advance. Only with a complete siege, a siege that included the KDP, could they get some results. That is what they try to do now. They are trying to build a road from the dam to where the KDP is.
What the KDP is doing is despicable. Back then, there were some places where, no matter what the KDP did, the Turkish army couldn’t enter. With the notion that the KDP are also Kurdish too, our friends allowed them to settle in some nearby places. From Dereluk, near Zap, they were allowed to set up a police station there. On the other side, they were also allowed on the Amediye side. Now, this approach of the movement, the guerrilla, and the HPG is being used against them. The resistance against this will continue, and the struggle will continue. It is not possible for the Turkish state to get the results it wants. The struggle will continue until the end.
You mentioned the difference between these latest attacks and the previous ones and also drew attention to the role played by the KDP in this attack. It is seen that the Iraqi government also played a crucial role in this latest attack, especially through its omission. How should the Kurdish public understand the role of the KDP in these invasions?
The KDP plays a primary role in these invasions. Right now, Iraq is also involved in this. It was the KDP that brought Iraq into this. Iraq didn’t really want to get involved. But the KDP is blackmailing Iraq by relying on Turkey. For this reason, Iraq also got involved in this attack. Maybe not openly, but it was approved and accepted. The KDP is doing this. The KDP doesn’t think it is enough to include Iraq; it also wants to include the PUK, so now it is putting pressure on the PUK.
In fact, the Turkish state, the KDP, some international powers, the USA, and some states in Europe are actually implementing this plan. They will supposedly take over our movement, or crush it. Then they want to turn the people of this movement into refugees and place them somewhere in Iraq. They actually have such a plan.
Iraq’s involvement in this attack, the KDP, the fact that the US and some European powers are behind it show that there is such a plan and the KDP is at the center of this. The KDP is putting pressure on Iraq. As comrade Bese said, it is also lobbying on behalf of Turkey. Just as Turkey has declared the PKK a terrorist organization and wants to exclude it from the world, the KDP is doing the same. And the KDP aims to crush and liquidate our freedom struggle by uniting all these forces against us. The KDP does not recognize any Kurd except itself. For KDP, it is enough to be in power in two, three cities. For this, it sacrificed the whole of Kurdistan, surrendering to those who wanted to commit genocide in Kurdistan.
In this regard, I remember Dr. Shivan with gratitude and respect. In the 1960s, there were national liberation movements all over the world; in this tradition, as a Kurd from Dersim (tr. Tunceli) and doctor, Dr. Shivan wanted to develop a struggle for North Kurdistan. Thinking that the KDP was Kurdish, he went to southern Kurdistan, thinking that it would help him. He was supposedly going there to establish an organization, an army, and an armed force against Turkey. He went with such intentions and made some effort. In Iraq, he establishes relations with villages and tribes also on the Turkish border. Turkey realizes this and warns the KDP. It orders them to murder him and liquidate his efforts. And the KDP did. Even the Turkish intellectual Ismail Beshikci says that the murder of Dr. Shivan was carried out by the KDP at the request of Turkey. There is such a reality. This is how it has assassinated many political leaders in East Kurdistan as well. In this respect, the reality of the KDP must be understood correctly. It is not like a disagreement between the PKK and the KDP. There is no such thing. The KDP wanted to prevent August 15th, they wanted to take it under control. It wanted to take the PKK under control. Later, when August 15th happened, it faced great problems. Because the KDP promised the Turkish state to prevent a Kurdish struggle in Turkey.
In the 1960s and 1970s, Turkey was already a NATO country. And Iran was already a country connected to the USA and Europe. It is the gendarmerie of the Middle East, together with Turkey, and has turned a blind eye to the KDP. But of course, an important power, the gendarme of NATO, would not want a Kurdish movement and struggle to develop in Turkey. They do not want the NATO member to weaken. It was in that environment, in the 1960s, when Dr. Shivan wanted to develop a struggle, that the KDP prevented it. It is such a power. The KDP has nothing but power in a few cities. It calculates that if it makes concessions, if it does this and that, it may be allowed to live. It thinks that Turkey will keep it alive if it does this. That Turkey will may allow it to rule in a few cities. Or that even some international powers will support it. The KDP is really a very backward power. It cannot stand against a political and ideological power like Rêber Apo and the PKK. Its ideology and politics cannot stand. That’s why it is so hostile to the PKK and Rêber Apo.
The KDP says it will establish a state. This is how it tries to influence society. This is how it tries to deceive the Kurds. In fact, that’s why it held the independence referendum. What happened? They lost 40 percent of southern Kurdistan. In fact, from the very first day, Rêber Apo called on the KDP and PUK to “play a role in the democratization of Iraq.” Instead of doing so, the KDP relied on Turkey and blackmailed Iraq. Supposedly, they will get something from Iraq. If it had made efforts toward democratizing Iraq, it would not have lost that 40 percent. Those areas would still be under Kurdish influence. In fact, the whole of Iraq needs democratization. But of course, the KDP lost 40 percent of the so-called opportunities, gains, or military and political dominance.
The reactions against this invasion attack and deep collaborationism are increasing day by day. What is the importance of the growth and effectiveness of these reactions for the freedom and future of Kurdistan?
It doesn’t work like this. What the KDP is doing is a betrayal. The fact that this is becoming normalized is very bad. The most dangerous situation for Kurdish history, for Kurdish society is when this becomes normalized and ordinary. Like the termites of a tree, the KDP consumes patriotism and weakens the struggle. It wears out and weakens Kurdish national feelings. Kurds are making so many sacrifices through great struggle. The measures of struggle, the philosophy of life and struggle are rising one the one side, but on the other the KDP’s actions are wearing them down, weakening them and gnawing at them. This is very dangerous. It destructs the Kurdish sentiment. It is destroying and weakening their national reflexes. All Kurds should think about the consequences of this for the future.
In this respect, everyone should make their stance clear. Especially intellectuals and artists should take a stance. It is because of the weakness of the KDP’s stance that it is so collaborative and so deep in treachery. Those who do not take a stand against the KDP are also partly responsible for this. The KDP assumes that it could collaborate and betray as much as it likes and that there will be no consequences. The KDP thinks that society doesn’t see through its betrayal. In this respect, a clearer position must be taken. This is the only way to prevent this. The Kurdish people have the power to prevent it. In fact, the base of the KDP is also disturbed. But since intellectuals and artists do not take a general stance, society does not react too much. Because when they react, they are suppressed. There should be a reaction in Hewler (Erbil), in Sulaymaniyah, in Ranya, and in northern and eastern Kurdistan. Yes, Rojava is reacting. Rojava is taking a clear stance against the KDP’s betrayal. It is indeed Rojava that has the clearest open stance on this issue. Because the KDP is also hostile to Rojava. The KDP is also responsible for the occupation of Afrin and Serekaniye. In this respect, in order to stop this situation, the people should take a stand against the KDP everywhere: in northern and southern Kurdistan, in Europe, in Rojava, and everywhere. Particularly intellectuals, artists, other Kurdish organizations, and Kurdish groups. Looking at the approach of other Kurdish groups, one can easily see how weak their measures are. This is really a bad situation for everyone. Those parties need to get out of this situation.
The comprehensive attacks on the Kurds, which are intensifying today, started especially on July 24, 2015. We are entering the 10th year of uninterrupted attacks. What have these 10 years of uninterrupted war and your resistance shown the Kurdish people, their international friends, and especially their enemies?
This 10-year war actually started with the heavy isolation of Rêber Apo, which began on April 5th. We should start from there, on April 5th. Since then, the AKP government has allied itself with ISIS in order to sustain itself and suppress the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. The June 7 pre-election bombings in Amed, the massacre of the 33 travelers in the Pirsûs (tr. Suruc) Massacre, the massacre of around 110 people in Ankara Train Station, and the wounding of hundreds of others. Again, in the ISIS massacres elsewhere, they raided a wedding in Antep and massacred Kurds at a wedding. The AKP government wanted to weaken the Kurdish struggle, the struggle of the Kurdish people. It wanted to frighten, scare, and intimidate. It waged war not only against the Kurds but also against the democratic forces.
One of the most important things to learn in this decade is that the war against the Kurds is also a war against the democratic forces. The moment an attack against the Kurds is launched, an attack against the democratic forces is launched. This has been seen. On July 24, an attack with dozens of warplanes was launched. That’s how the war started. Davutoglu back then said that they were preparing this for over a year. Before that, there was the ‘çöktürme planı’. It was decided on by the National Security Council. Rêber Apo wanted to prevent this. That’s how the Dolmabahçe Agreement came about. That’s how he wanted to prevent it, but the state made an alliance with Erdogan in order to survive. It allied with ISIS, and it allied with the MHP. It allied with them by releasing some of the soldiers on trial in the Ergenekon case. Thus, it started a war against our movement. The war against the democratic forces has begun.
The war against the Kurds has revealed the true face of the AKP, of the MHP, of the Turkish state, and generally of everyone. What is the approach of the Turkish state towards the Kurds? It has revealed this. In this respect, it led to the realization of an important Kurdish consciousness. Again, there was a distorted understanding of democracy in Turkey. This ten-year attack contributed a lot to the transformation of that distorted understanding of democracy in Turkey. The democratic forces realized that an attack on the Kurds was an attack on them. Democracy cannot be realized without solving the Kurdish question. Because the democratic forces are attacked, the Kurds do not benefit. They are enemies of democracy because they are afraid of Kurds profiting from it.
The question is not if and when the Third World War may start. We are already in the middle of it. We have been pointing out many times, that the Third World War has already started a long time ago and that it is ongoing. If it is understood within the parameters of the First World War and the Second World War, of course it will be misinterpreted. World War III is developing in accordance with and based on the economic, political and social conditions of the world. The Turkish state wants to benefit from the new world order which would be shaped by World War III. It aims to survive through this war, crush the Kurds, suppress the Rojava administration. It wants to reach the borders drawn in the Misak-ı Milli. In fact, there was no Kurdish denialism during the congress when the Misak-ı Milli was adopted. The Turkish state actually imposed Kurdish denialism in Lausanne, with the imposition of the British, and made them accept the Kurdish genocide in exchange for leaving Kirkuk and Mosul to Iraq, England and France. In other words, in exchange for the cession of Mosul and Kirkuk, the Turkish state was allowed to go for the genocide of the Kurds. Now the Turkish state is pointing out that they have not succeeded in doing what they were promised 100 years ago, that the conditions are different from what was agreed, so it is openly demanding Mosul and Kirkuk back. Devlet Bahceli said it openly. Also Erdogan said, “We will not make the same mistake in Rojava as we did in Iraq”. What does that mean? In this respect, the world also understood what everyone’s reality is in this game. In fact, the war on the Kurds is a war that revealed who is what in Turkey. It revealed who is of what caliber in the Middle East. It reveals who is of what mentality and what caliber in the world. We have clearly seen this in this in the past decade.
This ten-year period has, of course, been a great struggle for us. There has been oppression and persecution. Fascism has been institutionalized in Turkey, but our people have been engaged in a struggle against it. They saw the reality of the Turkish state in depth. In the 2013–2014 period, an understanding that the issue could be solved in an easy way permeated society, and some such misconceptions emerged. The attacks since then have revealed the reality and the actual mentality of the Turkish state. In this respect, the fact that we have survived and grown despite all the attacks in this ten-year period proves that we will achieve great success in the future. Those who are able to resist such attacks are able to achieve great success. Those who fail to achieve results in the face of such great attacks eventually collapse. At the moment, in fact, it is the Turkish state that has not achieved any results with its attacks. We, on the other hand, have resisted all the attacks. This will create important gains for us in the future. It will also be a process in which the Turkish state’s calculations come to naught.
July 19, 2012, marks the anniversary of the revolution in Rojava. This revolution has left behind 12 years at great cost. What role does the Rojava Revolution play for the people of the Middle East and the world?
I commemorate with gratitude and respect the tens of thousands of martyrs who kept the Rojava Revolution alive till today. I also salute our tens of thousands of veterans. Indeed, the Rojava Revolution has been a great development and a very important step. Its importance will be understood even more in the future. There is a saying that my friend Fuat always says: “The fish who swim in the sea do not know the sea.” Now, the greatness of the Rojava Revolution has not been sufficiently grasped even by those who carried it out, or those who are in it. This will be grasped more in the future. Of course, the Rojava Revolution is a revolution of Rêber Apo. For 20 years, Rêber Apo had been struggling there. He educated the people of Rojava; he educated the Kurds and thereby created a new mentality, life, and philosophy of struggle. As a result of this, the new Kurdish personality, thousands of Kurdish youth, men and women, joined the guerrilla. This, of course, also had a great effect on society. In other words, I want to say that without the efforts of Rêber Apo, the Rojava Revolution would not have happened. The Rojava Revolution was achieved by the people shaped by him. This reality needs to be seen. Everyone should know that the path has been paved by Rêber Apo.
Rojava is a place where the thoughts of Rêber Apo have found the opportunity to be put into practice. Yes, you put forward a theory, an ideology, and you propagandize it. This is important because, of course, it has certain affects. But where will you see how true, good, realistic, and useful it is for humanity, for society, or for the Kurdish people? You will see it in practice. In this respect, the Rojava Revolution is a very important field of practice in terms of the practicalization of Rêber Apo’s thoughts, feelings, philosophy, and paradigm. The thoughts and paradigm of Rêber Apo are not yet fully implemented. There are still inadequacies, but even as far as they are implemented now, they have changed society and influenced the world. Here is the women’s revolution, the understanding of a democratic nation, the non-powerist mentality, etc. These are very important. Undoubtedly, there is still an imperialist mentality in Rojava, but the paradigm of Rêber Apo is working on its dismantling. A revolution has emerged, a new way of life emerged, and a new form of self-governance emerged. A government in Rojava, North, and East Syria cannot be something that deems itself as ‘above the people’. There can never be a state there because there are people who have learned this paradigm. The Rojava Revolution is shaped by this paradigm. The realization of such a revolution, especially in the Middle East, means great enlightenment. The Middle East is reforming and entering some form of renaissance. It breaks many taboos in the Middle East; it breaks the narrow understanding of nationalism and the fanatical understanding of religion. The reality of all kinds of religions living together and all kinds peoples living together emerged. It is very important that the understanding of ensuring the co-existence of peoples, religions, beliefs, and different cultures take root in the Middle East.
Again, the liberation of women is essential. States and powers have developed their power based on the enslavement of women. In the very geography where the first state emerged, where the first human crisis emerged, the domination over women, there this crisis inevitably intensifies. It was first shaped here. The women’s revolution is also turning that upside down. It creates a great revolutionary development.
Society has changed a lot since a new mentality was created. We see this clearly in Rojava. Although it has its shortcomings and inadequacies, of course it belongs to a society; that is, there is no such ruling power that wants to oppress society. Yes, there are some statist approaches, but there is still a conscious, democratic society standing for women’s freedom, and women have an important influence there. This is very important and changes everything. Women’s freedom has such power. It is not like other forms of freedom or other forms of democratization. Women’s freedom and democratization affect and change all aspects of life. It is an important transformative power, and the world is affected by it. The women’s liberation movement in the world has reached a new stage in the last 10–20 years. If it weren’t for the paradigm of Rêber Apo if it wasn’t for the concrete practicalization of this paradigm in Rojava, the women’s liberation movement would not have developed so rapidly. At the moment, the women’s movement in the world is putting forward a very intense and accelerated line of struggle. It is increasingly trying to influence societies everywhere. The Rojava Revolution has had a great impact on this. In this respect, of course, we need to embrace the Rojava Revolution strongly and shape it with the paradigm of Rêber Apo.
Of course, there are also enemies to this process. For example, the Turkish state is one of these enemies. In the face of this, there must be a great deal of preparation for resistance and war in Rojava. In the early days of the revolution, Rêber Apo pointed out the necessity of preparing for resistance and war. The people directly started investing in big and tall buildings; they started to focus on material value. Rêber Apo criticized this and pointed out the necessity of preparing for being attacked. “Shape everything according to the upcoming resistance and war,” he said. This still needs to be done. Society needs to be prepared for such a struggle. The Rojava Revolution can only be sustained by a struggle based on society. It cannot survive if the fight is just left for the YPG, YPJ, or SDF. That’s not how it works. A line of struggle and resistance that goes beyond this must be put forward.
12 years is a very long time. The Mahabad Republic, for example, just managed to sustain itself for 6 months. Rojava has already survived 24 times as long. This has brought about a great deal of change and development in society. It has tasted freedom. It also tasted a sense of identity and culture. In this respect, it will protect the Rojava Revolution by resisting all kinds of attacks.
You mentioned that the Rojava Revolution has serious enemies and have pointed out that the most dangerous is the Turkish state. While the fascist AKP-MHP’s invasion attacks against Rojava are still continuing, the Erdogan-Assad meeting is once again on the agenda. How should the threats to invade Northern and Eastern Syria be linked to the fascist chief Erdogan’s request to meet with Assad again?
Erdogan intervened immediately when the crisis broke out in Syria. He aimed to overthrow the state, the regime, the Assad government in Syria, and to replace it with a government of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is related to him. For this purpose, he intervened in Syria with almost all means. The civil war in Syria deepened critically because of that. Another reason for wanting the Syrian state to collapse so quickly was so that the Kurds would not benefit from the existing vacuum of power, so that a state affiliated to them would be formed and that this state would crush the Kurds. In this way, it would achieve both goals. The deepening of the civil war in Syria, the occupation of Idlib, Afrin, Serekaniye, al-Bab, and Jarablus, the Turkish state is responsible for all that happened there. The Turkish state spread destruction and wanted a power subordinate to itself. In this respect, it did all kinds of hostility. And now Erdogan stands up, as if he had never done any of this, as if he had not destroyed Syria, as if he had not carried out this great destruction, as if he had not committed the greatest enmity, as if he had not cursed Assad every day. Now he says, that he wants to meet with Assad. Why? Because his policy failed. It failed to get results. This is actually an admission that his Syria policy has failed. This is certain. He says, “we can be brothers again”. Assad came to Turkey for a while. They took pictures with his wife, Assad’s wife Esma. After that, he said, `If Europe has Schengen, we have Shamgen`. In other words, Syria and Turkey were almost going to unite like the European Union. Then what happened? Assad knows the reality of Erdogan. He knows the reality of the Turkish state. There is no morality, no conscience, nothing in the policy of the Turkish state. When it comes to its own interests, everything else is trivial. They saw that Erdogan has no religion, no faith, nothing other than self-interest. He has no moral values. He has nothing but power. Such a man. Assad knows this. I mean, he is in a position to know.
Now why is Erdogan doing this? He wants to meet with Assad to convince him to crush the Kurds together. This is his plan, his main goal. Assad’s father had a Kurdish policy. The Kurds did not fight Syria after the crisis broke out in Syria. They did not wage any war with Syria. Yes, they remained in their own place, because if they hadn’t, Al-Nusra would have tried to dominate everywhere. ISIS would have dominated. ISIS and Al-Nusra wouldn’t have left a single Syrian city untouched. Would Bashar al-Assad have remained? That’s why comrade Bese pointed out the other day that the Kurds ensured the regime’s survival. Yes, the Kurds did. If the Kurds had not controlled Kurdistan, Rojava, and northern and eastern Syria, there would have been no Syrian regime, no Hafez al-Assad regime, and no Baathist regime. Doesn’t Bashar al-Assad know this fact? He does. Until now, they have not waged any war with the Kurds. They have not fought. When the Kurds were in control, the Syrian regime retreated their soldiers and told them they could go home. Everyone, civil servants and soldiers, went home.
This is the reality. What would Bashar al-Assad gain by being hostile to the Kurds? He would lose. When the Syrian state becomes hostile to the Kurds, it will lose. When he is hostile to the Kurds, that’s when Erdogan will achieve his goal. That is how Erdogan intents do achieve the goals that he could not achieve through war. Syria, Bashar’s government, the Baath cannot be stuck in the middle. In this respect, the Syrian regime should think carefully. They should solve their problems with the Kurds by reaching out, discussing and meeting. This is why they are already meeting. As far as we are informed, the Syrian regime and the Kurds have been meeting frequently. For 12 years, this relationship has never been lacking. Those in the Syrian administration have met with Bashar, and Bashar`s aides have also met with the Syrian administration. But no solution has been found so far. But they are meeting. They have the opportunity to meet all the time. At the moment, there is no serious enmity, nothing hostile against each other. From time to time, the Syrian regime makes some unrealistic statements for propaganda purposes, such as “America is the reason why we are in this situation, the Kurds brought America here”, which are only for propaganda purposes and aimed at blaming the Kurds. But they also know that these claims have no real basis. They also know the Kurdish approach. In this respect, our advice to the Syrian regime, to Bashar al-Assad and his administration is that as the PKK, as representatives of a movement with which Rêber Apo and Hafez al-Assad have been friends for years, we want them to solve their problems with the Kurds in reconciliation. Of course, the Kurdish administration should also take this approach seriously. The Kurdish administration should also solve its problems with Syria. When I say this, I don’t mean unilaterally; both the Syrian regime should take steps towards a solution and the Kurdish administration, the Kurdish side there, the administration in North and East Syria, the Arabs, the Assyrians should go to the regime with a solution approach. But it will not be like before. Kurds want their basic rights. They want their identity to be recognized. They want their language and culture recognized; they want education in their mother tongue. They want local democracy, that is, they want to govern their own localities. They can reach a conclusion through mutual discussions. The solution for Syria is not an agreement with Turkey. They can negotiate with Turkey. They should tell Turkey to get out, and the Turks say this is a precondition. What were the conditions when they occupied the country? First of all, the start of negotiations means that you have step back from hostility, to stop occupying would be a step. It is the right attitude for Bashar al-Assad to tell the Turkish state to leave. It is not a precondition. It is the most reasonable, the most natural, the right according to international law. The Turkish state raises hell when something happens somewhere. It has gone there and occupied soil. They say get out, but the Erdogan regime does not accept this. How can neogitations based on good will be initiated under the circumstances of illegal occupation? It seems that the Turkish state is trying to make that occupation a bargaining chip. Again, blackmailing another state. Like I pointed out before, the Turkish state really is a blackmailing state. It blackmails Europe, the US, Russia, Iraq, the Arabs basically everyone whom it interacts with. One day the blackmail policy will hit the wall and they will lose big time. I don’t think that the Assad-Erdogan meeting will be concluded immediately or that Assad will come to an agreement with Turkey on the basis of Kurdish enmity. We believe that Bashar al-Assad will act prudently and solve his problems with the Kurds on a democratic basis.