our interviews

The isolation and torture against the Kurdish people’s leader, Abdullah Ocalan, continues uninterruptedly. Undoubtedly, the Kurdish people and their international friends continue to struggle. Most recently, 69 Nobel laureates issued a statement demanding his physical freedom, and French Senator Pascal Savoldelli applied to the Turkish Ministry of Justice to meet with Abdullah Ocalan. First of all, how do you assess these developments?

Before I address your question, I would like to take this opportunity to draw attention to something else. We are still in the month of July, a month in which historically many massacres were committed against our people. Firstly, I would like to condemn those responsible for these massacres and remember the people who lost their lives in these atrocities. July 24 marked another anniversary of the Treaty of Lausanne, which initiated the founding of the anti-Kurd alliance. Since then, the occupying, genocidal Turkish state launched countless mass offensives against our movement and our people. The repression faced today is a continuation of this. The Kurdish people have been struggling against this alliance until today. Our people have taken many steps in their struggle, but this alliance against the Kurds has not completely been defeated. In fact, the enemies of the Kurdish people are working on renewing this alliance. Nevertheless, I am convinced that the Kurdish people will smash this fascist alliance because they are aware that this alliance means their total annihilation.

Also on July 27, a huge massacre was committed against our people in Rojava, particularly in Aleppo and Qamishlo. In Qamishlo alone, 62 of our people were massacred, and many were injured. I strongly condemn those who committed this massacre. Again, in July 1930, a widespread massacre was committed against our people in Qelqeli. Our people have always stood in defense of those who gave their lives as a result of this massacre, and they will continue to do so. Then again, on July 3, ten guerrilla fighters were massacred with chemical weapons in Hani. I respectfully commemorate all of our martyrs.

Now we are approaching August 3^rd. On this day ten years ago, a genocidal attack was initiated against our Êzidî people. The threat of a new ferman¹ against our Êzidi people is still very much alive. Our Êzidi people should not forget the fermans that have taken place so far as well as the ongoing threat of new ones. They must take care of themselves and take their fate into their own hands. Other than this, no one can protect our Êzidi people. Before the eyes of the world, those who had claimed to be in power in Shengal [Sinjar] fled and surrendered the Êzidi people to ISIS during the last ferman. The fate of thousands of Êzidi women and children remains unknown. In order not to experience such a ferman again, our Êzidi people must organize, unite, have willpower, strengthen their institutions, and practice self-defense. Only in this way can they protect themselves against fermans and survive. On this occasion, I convey my greetings and express my respect to our Êzidi people.

Rêber Apo² considers philosophy and science to be of great value, and he stands up for the achievements of humanity by intertwining everything in history that has served humanity. Rêber Apo has developed a paradigm on this basis and many intellectuals, writers, artists, politicians, and scientists accept this paradigm. Accordingly, we managed to develop an international campaign for Rêber Apo. In reality, this campaign was developed by the friends of the Kurdish people, and we took part in it. This campaign has already brought about many important results. An agenda was created based on it. The international friends of our people, our movement, and our party, those who stand up for freedom and democracy, those who carried out the first step of the campaign, should also develop the next move. We are ready to take part in it with all our power.

The campaign is being developed day by day, and like I pointed out, many people who stand for humanity, democracy, and freedom are taking part in it and are releasing statements, making press conferences, and much more. They are stating that Rêber Apo represents the achievements of humanity and that he must be released from prison. They are saying, ‘One cannot keep such a person in prison’. The front to protect Rêber Apo is growing day by day. As you said, most recently, 69 Nobel laureates issued a joint statement and wrote letters. In their letters, they wrote extensively about how they support Rêber Apo and how they support the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom and democracy. That’s why they sent letters to the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT), the Council of Europe (CoE), and many international organizations and called on them. Also, as you said, the French Senator sent a letter to the Turkish Ministry of Justice asking to meet with Rêber Apo.

Ercan Kanar, one of Rêber Apo’s first lawyers, has emphasized that the laws used against Rêber Apo have no basis, which is why he must be released immediately. I would like to take this opportunity to send my greetings and respect to those who have shown a clear stance before, and also now to the 69 Nobel laureates, the French Senator and Ercan Kanar. They represent the conscience of humanity. That is why their work is very sacred. It is a work for humanity. All of them have worked for humanity; that’s why they received the Nobel Prize. Many of them say that Rêber Apo, with the paradigm he has developed, has produced a solution that is stronger than theirs in many respects. The reason why they embrace Rêber Apo and the struggle for freedom and democracy so strongly is that they see the truth in Rêber Apo’s paradigm. Because Rêber Apo is known to be a philosopher. He focuses on the problems of humanity and nature in order to develop solutions for them.

The form of isolation of Rêber Apo is not ordinary isolation. It has been taken to a whole new level by the Turkish state, which has been ready to trample on all existing laws at the national and international level and go against all moral values of humanity. This policy against Rêber Apo has never been carried out against any other person in the world. They are taking revenge on him, saying that he is responsible for the awakening of the Kurds, that he raised the consciousness of our people, organized them, and made them fight for their lives. The politics against Rêber Apo are the politics against the Kurdish people. To take responsibility for Rêber Apo, to demand his physical freedom, and to fight for this, is to struggle for a solution to the Kurdish question. The Turkish state is conducting such a policy against Rêber Apo because it wants to eliminate the Kurds. The Turkish state understands that the Kurdish society and Rêber Apo are interdependent. Those who struggle for Rêber Apo’s physical freedom must also bring the Kurdish question to the agenda because this question is the reason why Rêber Apo is being kept in a coffin cell in Imrali and why brutal policies are being implemented against him. As long as the Kurdish question is not solved, they will continue these policies. That is why it is necessary to fight for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. This will also solve the Kurdish question. Every work we do must be carried out based on this understanding.

You may have heard that the CPT recently gave an interview to the ANF news agency. An interesting topic emerged. Among other things, the issue of double standards was raised, as the CPT intervened in incidents in Azerbaijan, for example, but remains silent on the situation of Rêber Apo. How can it be that the torture of one person is simply tolerated while another is intervened in?

The Turkish state is a member state of NATO, which developed the International Conspiracy³. Some members spearheaded it on behalf of NATO, particularly from Europe and the CoE, to which the CPT is an institution. The European approach when the International Conspiracy was developed is commonly known. Maybe former Italian Prime Minister Massimo D’Alema took a different stance, but Europe worked for the success of the conspiracy. The CPT works under the CoE and plans its activities based on the decisions of the CoE. The CPT is defined as responsible for protecting people’s rights against certain states, but when we look at it, it completely supports the Turkish state. It does not defend human rights or peoples’ rights against the Turkish state. It is based on the politics of the Turkish state against Rêber Apo and the Kurdish people. Now, what does this mean?

The Turkish state is conducting a policy of genocide against the Kurdish people and Rêber Apo. The CPT should defend the rights of Rêber Apo and the Kurdish people, but it stands with the Turkish state. In other words, it is an instrument for the politics of genocide. Those who represent the conscience of humanity, those who serve humanity, and those who receive awards for this are calling and sending letters to everyone, but the CPT remains silent because it serves the states. Our people are also aware of this. That is why our people strengthen their struggle. The more they strengthen this struggle with their international friends, the more results will be yielded. The struggle has already exposed the reality of the CPT and the CoE. It revealed the reality of the Turkish state.

At this moment, a full-scale occupation attack on the Medya Defense Zones⁴ is taking place. The Turkish state is doing in South Kurdistan what it has been doing for years in Cizir, Shirnex, and other towns in North Kurdistan. They are raiding houses, searching for people who oppose their actions, and interfering massively in the lives of civilians. What is the background and aim of these attacks?

Recently, the comrades Newal, Jiyan, and Dijwar were martyred in the Zap region. By commemorating them, I salute and pay my respects to all those who gave their lives fighting against the invaders and genocidaires and defending Kurdistan, the Kurdish people, and human values. This movement, the people of Kurdistan, and humanity will never forget their efforts. They are fighting heroically under the most difficult and unimaginable conditions, being bombarded with chemicals and other banned weapons. Those heroes do not want anything for themselves and never complain about the circumstances. They fulfill their duties for the people and for Kurdistan with great excitement, joy, and voluntarily They are martyrs not only of the PKK but of the people of Kurdistan and of all of humanity. They struggle and give their lives to defend the values of humanity. That is why they will never be forgotten.

The Turkish state is currently occupying South Kurdistan. Who are the ones who enable them to do this? The Barzani family. The Turkish state entered the South with the support of the Barzani family. Through them, they are getting stronger every day. Right now, they are paving roads for them from Batufa to Sheladize. The Turkish army settled in all those cities, and they are now settling in the mountains with the support of the Barzani family. The more the Turkish army advances, the weaker the power of the Barzani family gets. They keep talking about the status of the autonomous region, but there is no status left. They abolished it themselves. They put everything at the service of the Turkish state. That is why the Turkish state is acting freely. This is also the reason why they are turning against the guerrilla. Because the guerrilla stands against this occupation and genocide. It defends the people of the South and even of Iraq, and it defends the achievements of humanity. The fascist Turkish state, on the other hand, attacks these achievements, the Kurds, and Kurdistan. That is why it wants to take over Kurdistan completely. Who are the obstacles to this? Rêber Apo, the PKK, and the guerrilla. This is why they attack Rêber Apo, the PKK, and the guerrilla in such a brutal way. They don’t want anyone to stand in their way.

On this occasion, I call on every Kurd, democrat, socialist, patriotic, and honorable person whose aim is democracy and freedom and who is committed to Kurdish values. They need to see the truth. They must support the guerrilla and it’s struggle. They should not just be in sympathy; they should stand by the guerrilla and protect the struggle, their values, and themselves. This is what is now demanded of our people. A relentless struggle is being waged under very difficult conditions. Great heroism and sacrifices are being made. The guerrilla has a strong will and faith. Sometimes they even struggle for days without food or water. Everyone must see this reality and embrace it. They should fight side by side with the guerrilla using all their means. Then the guerrilla will be more successful in its fight against the occupation. I call on Kurdish youth; they should join the guerrilla. They should lead the people in the struggle against the occupiers and genocidaires. The Kurdish youth must take the lead. They should raise the people of Kurdistan so that they can stand together with the guerrilla against the occupation.

On one side there is a force that announced the death of a lieutenant colonel who worked for 20 years, and on the other side there is a force that wages war in a sacrificial way with its modest means. The UAVs and UCAVs that the enemy relies on so much are now routinely shot down by the guerrilla. Is there a problem in understanding this war?

What we are seeing right now is the third World War in progress. A concept has been forged internationally against our movement, and the Turkish state is trying to implement it. It is trying to realize its goal of destroying the PKK and eradicating the Kurdish identity. They know very well that they cannot complete the Kurdish genocide unless they eliminate the PKK. That is why the Turkish state sees the ongoing third World War as an opportunity. It has done a lot of work to achieve its goal, but it realized that this was not enough, so it wanted to develop a new concept for the Middle East.

As it is known, some institutions have been developed against the Kurdish people. But when the Islamic revolution happened in Iran and the Shah fell, the institutions developed against the Kurds were defeated. The Kurds took advantage of this situation. The Turkish state once again wants to establish such institutions together with the occupying states. With the help of the conservatives of the region, it wants to achieve its goals in World War III with both its Middle East concept and its international concept. That is why it is developing relations with Syria, Iraq, and many other powers.

Since the founding of our movement, the Turkish state has insisted on its aims. Particularly to prevent the development of a freedom movement in the name of Kurdistan. They had already taken many steps toward the genocide of Kurds, and now they want to complete it. There is no change in their goal. They follow only one rule: whatever is done against the Kurds is justified. They are currently using all their internal and external means for this purpose. The Barzani family serves this in every sense. No matter how much they serve, the guerrilla is also striking blows according to their means. The Turkish state does not disclose all the blows it has received. The children, spouses, or relatives of the killed soldiers have signed a contract not to talk to the families of those killed in the war or to give statements to the press. They hide many the deaths of the soldiers who were killed in the war. They even give misinformation to disclose what really happened. In their official statements, they often speak about accidents and suicides. For example, a lieutenant colonel was killed lately, and they had to reveal it, but again, they stated that the colonel died in an accident. They are waging a very dirty war. They constantly announce that guerrillas have been martyred, creating massively excessive numbers. For every friend that is martyred, the Turkish state claims that twenty guerrillas had been martyred. They have become experts in waging psychological and special warfare.

The war which they had been waging against the Kurdish people for years, they are now waging especially against the PKK. The Barzani family and the press are imitating Turkey. Just as the Turkish state has been spreading fake news until now, the KDP are doing the same. The Turkish state has carried its psychological and special warfare to South Kurdistan. Most recently, they alleged that the “PKK burned down the markets in Kirkuk and Hewler [Erbil].” It is a simple lie, but this isn’t the whole story; they are also trying to corrupt people with very big money. And the intelligence in Mosul, Kirkuk, and Shengal is completely under the control of Parastin and MIT. In all the reports, they elaborate on how to frame the PKK as a great danger for Iraq. Because the Turkish state and Barzani want to mobilize Iraq against the PKK as they do. They even lie, pressure, and distribute money to mobilize the PUK for this. Psychological and special warfare are being waged very strongly in South Kurdistan. When we look at the Turkish press and the Barzani press, we see that they try to confuse people’s minds in the same way. They want to make it impossible for the people to determine what is right and what is wrong.

Our people, Kurdistan’s intellectuals, writers, artists, politicians, women, old people, young people, children, and the whole Kurdistan society, must understand the reality of the Barzani family. If this reality is not well understood, the Kurdish people will suffer a great loss. Some people still think that the Barzani family is serving the Kurds, so they keep quiet. Maybe some of them even see how it is cooperating with the Turkish state but still remain silent. We don’t know exactly what the reason is. Maybe the Barzanis have paid some of them to keep quiet, or some of them are on the same line. If they do not oppose this betrayal, this collaborationism, if they do not fulfill their historical duty for their country and for their people, if they do not stand against it, they will commit a great sin. They cannot get out from under this. The Kurdish people and history will condemn them. They are a disgrace to the Kurdish people.

One must just look at what the KDP are bringing upon the Kurds. A few young people were arrested in Agiri for singing Kurdish songs and dancing govend⁵, and in Mersin, some were arrested for dancing govend. It is clear that those who cooperate with a state that acts like this, are not serving the Kurds. The Barzani family has never opposed the Turkish state. They are working on how to defame and eliminate the PKK. The Barzani family and the Turkish state have made a joint decision to destroy the PKK. They do everything for their families, not for the Kurdish people. If they wanted to do something for the Kurdish people, they would not cooperate with the Turkish state; they would oppose the Turkish state. If they had not cooperated, could the Turkish state have taken such steps in South Kurdistan? It would not have been possible. Could they have entered South Kurdistan with their tanks, artillery, and helicopters? The Turkish state is doing all this with the support of the Barzanis. With their support, the Turkish state massacres Kurdish youth and plunders the nature of Kurdistan. They are collaborators of the Turkish state.

Looking at their history, one can easily state that they have always attacked Kurdish interests in alliance with the occupying states. This is what they are currently doing in Rojava and in South Kurdistan. Kurdish intellectuals, artists, and politicians must explain this betrayal. There are two lines in Kurdistan right now: the line of betrayal and the line of patriotism. The duty of every patriot is to stand against treason. They cannot just watch and say there is a war between Kurdish forces; there is a war between the PKK and the KDP. There is no war between the PKK and the KDP; there is a war between the PKK and the occupiers and betrayers. This is the reality. Now all patriots are asked to fulfill their patriotic duty. The duty of patriotism is to not turn a blind eye to betrayal or to obfuscate betrayal.

There are many who are aware of this situation. For example, over one hundred Iraqi and Arab tribes have taken a stand against the invasion by the Turkish state. There are also many Kurdish tribes in North and South Kurdistan that support this. What would you like to tell them?

Indeed, some statements are being made against the Turkish occupation, and I salute and respect those who have issued them. Their work and their intentions are important, but this must be strengthened and form an organization. Their work is not continuous. Some people release statements and think they have fulfilled their duty. However, they should not act only with statements; they should form organizations against the occupation of the Turkish state. The occupation of the Turkish state poses great dangers not only for Iraq but also for South Kurdistan. This occupation must be fought against in an organized way. There are great dangers for Iraq and South Kurdistan. Look, there were elections in Kirkuk; a Kurdish governor was supposed to be elected, but for how many months is it still unclear who will be the governor. Who is preventing this? The Barzani family. They are trying to prevent the election of a Kurdish governor with the help of Turkmens and Arabs who are in the service of the Turkish state.

Are there guerrillas in Kirkuk?

Everyone knows there are no guerrillas there. That is not the issue. Anyone who thinks a little and uses their minds will understand why such claims are being made.

Iraq and Turkey have formed an alliance. With this alliance, Iraq did a great service to the Turkish state and the Barzanis by legitimizing the occupation of the Turkish state. Again, as a result of the Barzanis’ betrayal of both Kurds and Iraqis, the KDP legitimized their cooperation with the Turkish state. The Iraq government cannot represent Iraq after what it has done. A state comes, occupies their territory, and they tolerate it. This has a meaning. Again, the Barzani family claims to be a government and claims to want to protect the status quo, but they brought the Turkish state to South Kurdistan and handed over many cities to them. What kind of government is this, and what kind of defense of status is this? There is no government, and there is no status. The KDP abolished this by bringing the Turkish state, and Iraq tolerated this. Nothing can be worse than this. When ISIS posed a great danger to Iraq and South Kurdistan, the PKK opposed it. At that time, the Turkish state was also helping ISIS.

The former Iraqi Prime Minister said, “The PKK is a humanitarian movement; it defended our lands and our people; we thank you for that.” Now the current government dares to say, “The PKK is banned in Iraq.” They do so because the Turkish state and Barzani want this. Even from this, we can understand why Iraq has taken such a decision and who is pushing Iraq to accept it. Not Iraq, but the Iraqi government serves the politics of the Turkish state. It is legitimizing the occupation of the Turkish state and the treason of the Barzanis. The people of Iraq and South Kurdistan must see this and protect their country, their values, their land, and their future. The Turkish state wants to create a new Ottoman Empire. Their closest targets are Iraq and Syria. They developed the occupation on this basis. It is obvious who is hostile to Iraq and South Kurdistan and who is friendly. The Turkish state is tearing Iraq apart with the Barzanis, while the guerrilla is defending Iraq and South Kurdistan. In such a situation, how can the Iraqi government ban the PKK? This serves the occupation of the Turkish state.

I would like to take this opportunity to warn the Iraqi government not to be a tool for the Turkish state’s politics, not to serve the politics of genocide. This will cause them great harm. Maybe right now the Turkish state is making promises like, for example, that they would give electricity to Mosul and Kirkuk, that they would deliver their oil to the world, that they would open the gulf road for Europe, or that they would enrich them economically, and in this way, they are making the Iraqi government accept their policy. This is the game of the Turkish state. The Iraqi government should be careful about this. On this occasion, I call on those in Iraq and South Kurdistan who are against the Turkish alliance, to not limit their reactions to statements. If you think that this alliance is causing great harm, then you should stand against it. You must expel the occupiers from your country. In this way, their statements will be appropriate. If this is not the case and the reactions remain just some words, then the reactions will be just rhetoric, and that will be worthless.

Negotiations are taking place behind closed doors between Turkey, Syria, and Russia. In these talks, it is revealed that Erdogan wants to meet with Assad. He used to call Assad his brother, then he called him a murderer, and now he’s talking about Mr. Assad again as somebody with whom he seeks friendship. What is the reason for Erdogan’s zigzagging, and why does he want to meet Assad so much?

As it is known, Erdogan wanted to change Syria. He wanted the Syrian regime to be overthrown and to implement a government that would be loyal to Turkey. In this way, he was going to put Syria at Turkey’s service. That was a plan they publicly explained. And they worked hard for its implementation. In this course, they destroyed Syria, made millions of Syrian people migrate, many had to migrate from their lands, the economy fell in Syria, and they made the people and society miserable. They established and trained many proxies and mercenaries, and they are now using these mercenaries in many countries. They turned millions of people into refugees and threatened Europe. They both received money from Europe and used those refugees to keep Europe silent about their politics against the Kurds. Erdogan threatened that either they would stand by him, turning a blind eye to whatever he did to the Kurds, or he would send the refugees from Syria to them. That is another reason why Europe is silent.

The Turkish state exploited these refugees greatly; forcing them into cheap labor, and accordingly, Turkey’s capital benefited from these people. They also employed many people as spies and agents. But now those who left Syria have become a big burden for them, and they want to get rid of them. They are trying to prepare the ground for this. Just as they massacred Greeks, seized their properties, and plundered their houses in the October 6 and 7 incidents, they did the same to Syrians in recent months. They massacred people, looted their shops and houses, and seized their property. They want to force them to leave. In order to drive them out of the country, they want to launch a new occupation attack on Rojava and settle the people there. In order for this to be successful, they want to prevent anyone from resisting or being outraged by these plans. On the contrary, they want to create the image that they are doing something good and helping the Syrians. In this way, they are also sending a message to Europe. They want to convey to them that they can push the problem even further away from them and that all they have to do is allow Rojava to continue to be occupied. Erdogan is also sending this message to the peoples of Turkey. This is how they want to prepare the ground for the invasion.

Their Syria policy was not successful; they were defeated. Not only us but also many people in Turkey say this. They say that Turkey has taken wrong steps in Syria and that Turkey has caused great destruction in Afrin and other places. They changed the demography, disrupted the geography, and plundered the natural resources. Some have started to openly criticize this reality openly in Turkey. So, one can clearly point out that the Turkish states Syria policy failed. But this does not mean that Recep Erdogan has given up on this policy. He is changing tactics in the policy he has been pursuing until now. The other day he said, “I want to solve the problems in Syria,” and with regard to Assad, “We used to meet as a family, and now we can meet again.” Erdogan still wants to take over Syria by placing his gangs and mercenaries. He says that his only condition is that Syria must not accept the status of the Kurds and must eliminate it. They have occupied many places, from Idlib to Gire Spi, Afrin, and Serekaniye. For such negotiations to carry any weight, Turkey must stop occupying. Turkey is not in the position to formulate conditions. How could there be good relations when Turkey still occupies Syrian land? If the Syrian government accepts the talks under the current situation, it will render itself meaningless. Erdogan is the one who brought Syria into this mess. I guess that the Syrian government is well aware of this. Erdogan changing his old policy does not mean that he has given up on his goals. He has not achieved results with his tactics, and he wants to achieve his goal by developing a new tactic. His aim is to seize Syria and put it at the service of the Turkish state.

The Rojava Revolution has entered its 13th year. But there are problems both inside and outside. The Rojava administration has also spoken, they have explained the terms and conditions for the solution of the problems. How do you see the future of Northern and Eastern Syria and Syria in general? How can they solve their problems?

First of all, I would like to greet the people of Rojava and all the Arab, Armenian, Assyrian, Circassian, and Turkmen people living in Rojava together with the Kurdish people, in other words all the people living in Northern and Eastern Syria. The Rojava Revolution is a great revolution. It has had and will have significant effects in the Middle East. It has brought about many changes. Especially the fact that women led the revolution had an impact and change on the entire Middle Eastern society, effecting both mentality and life. A democratic change has developed. Rêber Apo has contributed a great deal to the realization of this revolution. It was his years of work in Rojava that laid the foundation for this revolution. There are now great dangers for this revolution, both internally and externally. The revolution cannot completely defend itself. This might not be the case in the political sense, but in the cultural sense the revolution is not yet complete. If a revolution is not completed culturally and socially, it is always in danger. In this area too, work is being carried out to defend the revolution and to make it persistent.

The Turkish state wants to defeat this revolution because it is hostile to the Kurds. For this, it again wants to take advantage of the Barzanis. It wants to strike a blow to the revolution with the hand of the Barzanis. Hakan Fidan made a statement recently, implying that the PKK would have surrounded every part of Iraq and that now Turkey would want to save Iraq from this. He basically said the same about Syria. There he said that the people in Rojava have seized the oil and that now Turkey would want to free this oil and put it at the service of Syria. They are trying to present themselves as if they are completely in the service of Iraq and Syria. They speak almost as if they are so friendly with these governments that they would put the lives of Turkish soldiers at stake for this. Who do they think they are fooling with this? They want to realize a neo-Ottoman empire in Syria and Iraq, and in this way, they aim to dominate the Middle East. That is why they present themselves as angels. This shows the reality of the Turkish state and how powerful it is in psychological and special warfare. It shows how they are ready for every lie, every form of blackmailing, and every form of deception. Both the Iraqi and Syrian people need to be careful about this.

Those who realized the Rojava Revolution have tasted freedom; therefore, they will protect the revolution. They should not pay attention to what the forces around them want them to do. They should focus exclusively on themselves. They should develop their revolution with their own means and struggles. They should establish dialog with Syria in order to solve their problems. If the Syrian regime does not agree to a solution, they should try other ways. There are many ways. They are not prisoners of a single path. If they prepare themselves well, if they strengthen their relations with the peoples, and if they are well organized, they can stand against everything.

Another point is that meeting the demands of the Turkish state is of no benefit to Syria. The demands of the Turkish state are obvious, and it will do what it has done in Syria until today. They are bringing about the end of Syria. Syria must act according to the demands of the Syrian people, not the Turkish state. If they accept the demands of the Turkish state and are hostile to the Kurds, they will be serving the Turkish state. This is how Erdogan wants to realize his goals: to plunder Syria in ways he didn’t manage to in the course of the last few years.

You gave examples of young people who have been systematically attacked for dancing govend or listening to Kurdish songs. Recently, there have again been many arrests. The policy of assimilation and Kurdish genocide continues. How do you evaluate the auto-assimilation policy alongside this policy of the occupiers?

The Turkish state is attacking Kurdish culture in order to eliminate the Kurds. It wants to eliminate everything that is connected to the Kurdish identity. If you want to destroy a people, you eliminate the culture of that people. Without their culture a people will disappear; they will no longer be able to take care of themselves. What was Erdogan saying? He was saying, “We have taken many steps, but we have not yet taken a step in the cultural field. We must take this step so that we can perpetuate our power.” They are changing Turkey’s history; they want to change its culture. They want to create a Turkey and a society according to themselves, and they also seek to develop this in Kurdistan. That’s why they ban everything that is part of Kurdish culture and identity. For example, they distributed tablets to students in all primary schools. With those tablets, they aim to take all children away from Kurdish culture. They are trying to force those children to love the Turkish state. They have installed many programs on these tablets; in this way, they want to assimilate the children already in primary school and make them forget where they come from. In this way, they want to completely eradicate Kurdish society and identity.

They arrest people who dance govend, they ban education in Kurdish, they ban slogans, Kurdish writing, etc. In other words, there are huge attacks on Kurdish culture. The state organizes many festivals in order to push forward assimilation. They want to supress society through arrests, torture, and lynching, and they want to Turkify the Kurds and eliminate those who do not let themselves be Turkified so that no one remains to oppose them. They are conducting their politics on this basis. I would like to make a call from here: no one should go to the festivals organized by the Turkish state in the cities of Kurdistan. Those festivals should be prevented from taking place. Instead of those festivals, Kurds themselves should organize festivals in their cities. They should speak Kurdish at all their rallies and marches, wherever and whatever they do. They should not speak Turkish. The friends in prison should also develop Kurdish language and Kurdish literature. Their theater, literature, poetry, novels, and stories should all be in Kurdish. They should testify in Kurdish in front of the courts. Each of our people should live with their own culture and speak their own language. All Kurdish families should live a life based on Kurdish identity against their assimilation. They should not develop auto-assimilation alongside the state’s assimilation. This is wrong. We have many achievements as a people; we should put these values at the service of humanity, and this can be done in Kurdish. If you don’t write in Kurdish, it is not Kurdish literature. This serves as assimilation. All songs should be in Kurdish. For example, we have some artists who appear before the public with Turkish songs. However, they should start to appear before the public only with Kurdish songs. The Turkish state wants to eradicate the Kurdish identity. Against this, a strong struggle is vital. On this basis, I call on all Kurds to take care of their culture and identity.

There is also an ecocide going on in Kurdistan. From North to South, from Rojava to East Kurdistan, the Turkish state is cutting down trees, destroying forests with bombs, and polluting the water and air of Kurdistan. What is the reason for this ecological destruction of Kurdistan’s nature?

The Turkish state wants to make all of Kurdistan its property. It is working to achieve this goal in every sense, both materially and morally. Recently, it has been focusing especially on the regions of Shirnek and Colemerg (tr. Hakkari). They want to establish their military headquarters there and turn these places into fields of energy. Therefore, it aims to erase the Kurds from these places. In this way, it wants to cut the relationship between the four parts of Kurdistan and liquidate the link between Kurds and their land so that it can liquidate other places more easily. At the moment, it wants to occupy South Kurdistan as well, and to do this, it wants to finish Shirnek and Colemerg first. In order to eliminate Kurdish society, it is distributing drugs deliberately, spreading prostitution and spying, and destroying nature by cutting down trees, extracting oil, polluting the water, and putting these places at its service in this way. It is causing great destruction, both in society and in nature.

It poses a great danger with the destruction it creates in nature and society. It was stated in the Turkish press that suicides among young people in Colemerg are increasing day by day. They made this a reality, not only in Colemerg. Drugs are distributed to children, even, from as young as 5 and 6 years old. This is a great danger for society. Most recently in Cewlig (tr. Bingol), a drug addict lost his life, and while dying, he injured many people. This is the policy of the state. It creates unlimited destruction, both in society and in nature. It deprives Kurdish society of the basis for life. Another example would be that many waters in the Shirnek region are undrinkable. People say that the water we see is like tar; it is undrinkable. They have left no trees, no villages; even in the cities, people are unable to live. The weather is not what it used to be; the seasons are losing their characteristics. People’s lives are now in danger. This is how they want to force people to migrate. They have especially focused on Shirnek and Colemerg now, but they will carry out the politics they are conducting there all over Kurdistan.

The Mesopotamia Ecology Movement has made a call, not only to Kurds but also to the society in Turkey, to stop the destruction of nature and society. But this is not just a call. In the press, there are both personal and institutional statements that oil is being extracted, water is being polluted, trees are being cut down, and that this is being done to prevent the guerrilla from sustaining there. But these destructions cannot be prevented with statements. Look; many villages in Turkey also stand against ecological destruction. The destruction of society and nature must not be allowed. I recently saw in the press that people from the ecological movement in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) are visiting houses and explaining the consequences of these destructions on society and what will happen in the end. This is an important work and should be done everywhere. In cities, towns and villages, our people need to protect themselves, their identity, their will, their labor, their values, their culture, their language, and their nature. One by one, houses should be visited, people should be told about the situation. Awareness must be raised, this is what is necessary. If even a single tree is being cut down, they should go there and stand against it. They should not be afraid of being arrested or getting killed by the state. They are already killing the whole society in this way, destroying the whole nature, leaving no possibility to live. Everyone needs to see this and stand against it. The people need to protect their society, nature, humanity and values. This is what is required of everyone.

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