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We are now in September 2024, and after all this time, the total isolation of Kurdish peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan is still continuing. But the resistance against this system also continues. Not only by Ocalan himself, but also the global campaign for his physical freedom and the democratic solution to the Kurdish question regularly makes the headlines. How do you assess the developments in this regard?

First of all, I would like to salute the historic Imrali resistance of Rêber Apo¹ with respect. The isolation, torture, and genocidal system there have now been imposed for 25 years, 6 months, and 16 days, and it still continues. The conspirators, the creators of this Imrali system, continue their aim of suffocating the struggle for freedom through it and with the most brutal attack methods.

At the same time, there is undoubtedly a great resistance against this. The global freedom campaign, which was launched on October 10, 2023, aiming for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, is about to enter its 11th month and is heading towards completing its first year. Also, a new anniversary of the October 9 conspiracy² is upcoming.

In this context, mass protests by the youth, women, generally our people, and our international friends continue in the four parts of Kurdistan, abroad, and all over the world. New forms of action are also being tried to be found. There is a great effort and a great struggle, through which the campaign has reached an important level after the last 11 months. The campaign has exposed both the Imrali system of torture, isolation, and genocide and the unlawful practices in Imrali and at the same time spread the word of Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo’s prison writings and the paradigm of democratic civilization were made better known worldwide as part of the campaign. Women, youth, workers, laborers, oppressed peoples, all oppressed groups are looking for solutions within Rêber Apo’s paradigm to get rid of the current system of capitalist modernity and its nation-state oppression and exploitation. They are more interested in and embrace this paradigm. They want to find the ways and methods of liberation. Thus, the freedom and democracy movement is gradually developing on a basis that transcends the system of capitalist modernity and is an alternative to it all over the world, as well as in our region and in the Middle East.

What is important in this context is that more and more people who represent the soul, heart, and brain of their respective societies are increasingly concerned with the paradigm. They not only oppose the unlawfulness of the Imrali system, but they also show great interest in the new paths opened by Rêber Apo in the line of freedom and democracy. Through them, they renew their own thought systems and restructure their own struggle for freedom. They see here a new hope for liberation, for freedom and democracy. That is why so many of them participate in the campaign. As much as this struggle is developing in the Kurdish community in Kurdistan, it is also developing in the peoples, oppressed, women, youth, socialist, revolutionary, and democratic forces all over the world. They hold countless meetings and conferences on this basis. Just to give an example, lately dozens of people who have received the Nobel Prize made a call together in solidarity with the global campaign. Or also now, there was a conference in Berlin called the ‘Peace and Democracy Conference’. Important issues were discussed there as far as it was reflected in the press. They also called for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. Most of all, they emphasized the decisive role of Rêber Apo in the solution of the Kurdish question and therefore in the peace of Turkey, the Middle East, and even the world. They demanded a dialog with Rêber Apo for peace and for his immediate physical freedom. These are important, of course. We have repeatedly stated that if there is to be a peaceful, political, and democratic solution to the Kurdish question, the only person who can realize it is Rêber Apo. The Kurdish society, particularly the women and youth, are constantly expressing this reality by taking to the streets. This reveals a pressing reality.

This must be pointed out again and again, because there are people who try to counteract this, who speculate and try to take advantage of the crisis situation for themselves. There are those who are dragging Turkey into dangerous abysses. The torture, isolation, and genocidal system in Imrali, the pressure and psychological torture exerted on Rêber Apo, and the fact that this has spread to Kurdistan, to the whole of Turkey, and has even affected the region and the world, all point to disaster. In this respect, it is important that all relevant circles once again make themselves aware that the representative of the negotiated solution is Rêber Apo. The only one who can realize a peaceful, democratic, and political solution is Rêber Apo. No one else can realize it.

Like I pointed out, there is a global mobilization for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, and the center of this resistance is, of course, Imrali. The biggest and most meaningful resistance for freedom and democracy in history is currently taking place in Imrali, under the leadership of Rêber Apo. It has been like this for 25 years, 6 months, and 16 days.

I would like to take this opportunity to underline once more that our global freedom campaign is heading towards its first anniversary. It is needed to develop it even further. It needs to be further spread and enriched with a new variety of methods. On the first anniversary, the campaign should reach a new peak. This is something that can only be achieved through struggle, and the one that believes in his/her struggle will be successful. I am strongly convinced by this fact.

We are fighting as a people, as a movement. We are resisting against the fascist, colonialist, and genocidal system and its attacks. This resistance is being led by Rêber Apo. And though this, at the end it will be the Kurdish people that will be successful. If this were not the case, would Rêber Apo ever lead such a resistance? As a leader that evaluates, scrutinizes, and analyzes everything, finds ways and methods, and makes decisions on this basis, if he has decided on resistance, if he resists against such attacks with such determination for freedom, for a democratic solution, we must know and understand that undoubtedly there will be victory at the end of this. There is liberation, freedom, and democracy at the end of this. There is a free and democratic solution to the Kurdish question. And this is what we mean when we speak about success and victory. As long as we carry out this struggle effectively and with the right, rich methods and grow the resistance, we will be successful. One needs to be convinced by this and have trust based on this. In this respect, all our people, especially the youth and women, as well as our international friends that are spread all over the world, should be aware of the historical meaning of this resistance. A great and historical victory is upon us. Therefore, without the slightest hesitation, without resorting to weakness, we proceed with our resistance and develop it even further and stronger. Let us grow and spread the resistance. Like this, we will definitely be successful.

I would then like to move on to another closely related topic – the resistance of the Kurdish guerrilla. What can you tell us about current developments in this regard?

It is the guerrilla that understands the resistance of Imrali the best, and it is also the guerrilla who is most effective by acting in the same spirit. One needs to be aware of this reality that has been going on like this for forty years. All the developments in the struggle for existence, in the name of freedom, democracy, and humanity, all the developments that have been experienced and created have been possible thanks to this guerrilla resistance. The guerrilla became the honor and dignity of the Kurdish people. It gave the Kurds consciousness and courage; it enabled them to organize and to struggle sacrificially. It educated and organized the Kurdish society and made it resist and sacrificially struggle for freedom. The guerrilla resurrected the Kurdish society, re-created it, and now it is heroically struggling in one line with the Imrali resistance for its liberation.

Currently, there are guerrilla actions all over northern Kurdistan. It was on the news a while ago; there are intense clashes on Mount Bagok. The fascist Turkish army, which has declared a forbidden zone for weeks, does not allow anyone to enter. Also just recently, there were intense clashes in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir), Serhat, Botan, in the Zagros region, and constantly all the way to Gever (tr. Yuksekova). The guerrilla resistance continues heroically. It represents the sacrificial spirit, consciousness, and will that were created by Rêber Apo. And it stands for victory. When someone wants to deal with the situation, they must first become aware of this reality. I would also like to take this opportunity to salute our heroic guerrillas who are waging this resistance and commemorate with respect, love, and gratitude all our heroic martyrs who resisted, fought, and fell martyrs lately in northern Kurdistan by commemorating comrade Berwar Dersim.

When it comes to guerrilla resistance, the Medya Defense Zones³ stand out today. The areas of Zap and Metina are now the focal points of this resistance. But there are also guerrilla activities in Heftanin and, for example, Xakurke. The entire Medya Defense Zones are witnessing the most intense and meaningful guerrilla resistance in history. A new form of guerrilla is being experienced there. Our central headquarters commanders make statements on these issues from time to time. They speak about the ‘Guerrilla of the Democratic Modernity’. It is being fought with a new style. Indeed, they are conducting the most meaningful and important resistance for freedom and democracy in history against the enemy, which is the second largest army of NATO, which receives all the support it wants from NATO and other states, which uses all kinds of collaboration and betrayal at the most advanced level. No other force could maintain such a resistance. We have always pointed out this reality. No army can resist like the guerrilla in the Medya Defense Zones. No one could withstand these conditions of resistance for a day, or even an hour. The AKP-MHP fascist dictatorship had pinned its hopes on this. Saying that no one could endure or resist under such circumstances. They have determined a certain area for eight years, but they are being dragged from deadlock to deadlock. All these areas have become a quagmire for them. They are not able to occupy or annex them, even though they use all kinds of chemical weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. They tried to include everyone they could in this dirty war. But the guerrilla is writing history.

Once again I salute this resistance once again. I wish continued success to the command and fighting force of the HPG and YJA Star. I congratulate them on their success. Every day, news of their actions hit the press. This makes the Kurdish people and humanity proud. It is a morale boost.

Just a few months ago, there were still voices claiming that the Kurdish freedom movement would be crushed in the coming weeks, definitely this summer. Now, however, these voices have become quieter again, speaking of “difficult circumstances” and the like. It is the guerrillas, including people like Orhan Bingol and Rosida Merdin, who are letting the efforts of the Turkish state come to nothing. What do you think of these statements by the fascist press?

I commemorate our martyrs with respect, love, and gratitude by commemorating our great commander Orhan Bingol and comrade Rosida Merdin. We really need to understand these martyrs correctly. The press published some information about and some statements by both comrades. They revealed the history of their struggle. These are very important, very meaningful. It is not such a simple thing. To devote such a large part of one’s life consciously and deliberately, with great courage and sacrifice for the Kurdish existence and freedom, for humanity, to the guerrilla struggle, to sacrifice for the existence and freedom of the people, to give everything to lead it. It is easy to simply say these things, but everyone should know what it means and how this can be achieved.

I personally know both comrades closely. We worked, fought, and waged war side by side for quite a long time. War does not come without a price. With the resistance, leadership, courage, sacrifice, and heroism of these martyrs, the fascist, colonialist, genocidal mentality and system are being dealt blow after blow. Hopes for freedom are developing, the principles for free life are developing, and the consciousness about freedom, organization, and action is developing and spreading all over Kurdistan and everywhere.

On this occasion, let me express the following: The summer is basically over; today is September 1st, and we have entered the fall. Some people said that with the end of this summer, there will be the end of the PKK. Some even said that by the end of the summer, there would be “no trace of them left in northern Iraq.” Now it is as if they have backtracked, as if they have forgotten that. Now again, they talk about November, or even winter. This story has been going on like this for years.

Let me point out the following: the PKK is standing upright, maintaining its full strength. It resists heroically in every aspect. Its guerrillas are resisting, the party leadership is resisting, and the masses are resisting. All kinds of work, literature, art, everything together, in a total, holistic, resistance. Also, our international friends are in resistance.

Some people have convinced themselves that these attacks would destroy the PKK. This is a blunder. They only exhaust their own power. They will see, but by the time they realize this, their power will already be exhausted, and they themselves will be exhausted. The PKK has tens of thousands of active militants and hundreds of thousands of potentials ready to be activated. It leads more than twenty million Kurds. It has not hundreds of thousands but millions, even tens of millions of friends all over the world. Why are you exhausting yourself? How and with what do you want to destroy such a movement? Those who fantasize about it will only end up ruining themselves. They will experience that destruction anyway, and that will be their end. I can express this clearly. Our guerrilla is the vanguard of victory in such a resistance. Under the leadership of this victory, our resistance and our people will surely triumph. The PKK grows, spreads, and expands more in the line of victory. It affects humanity more. By keeping Rêber Apo in Imrali, they want to reduce his influence, to rot him. But Rêber Apo became part of the whole world. He once said, “Wherever my prison writings are, I am there.” His prison writings are now in the hands of people all over the world. They are in the hands of women, youth, workers, and laborers, revolutionary socialist forces from all ethnicities, societies, and nations. Rêber Apo is everywhere. He is in everyone’s hands, minds, and hearts. Therefore, is it possible to encircle and rot Rêber Apo in Imrali? Those who hope and expect this will only rot themselves. It is not possible to destroy the PKK. Fall came, and once again their failure was revealed. Once again, the failures of the AKP-MHP fascism have become clear. Because the PKK is standing upright, stronger than ever, and closer to victory than ever. It is waging its struggle for freedom in every field, stronger and more meaningful than ever. And it will continue to do so until victory.

In recent months, there have been new developments regarding the Iraqi government’s collaboration with the Turkish government. Most recently, on August 15, a new agreement was signed in Ankara. How do you assess the current alliance policy in the genocidal war against the Kurds?

The meeting between Iraq and Turkey on August 15th was important. It was reflected in the press that they made some decisions that they agreed on before. Right after that, on August 23rd, there was a dastardly attack on members of the free press in Sulaymaniyah. Just about a week had passed since the agreement. The attack was based on this alliance. Some circles and the movement of the free press defined and evaluated it in this way. These were correct and accurate assessments. It was the first implementation of the August 15 agreement. On August 23, they cowardly attacked members of the free press, civilians, and unarmed people in Seyidsadiq.

Fascism means fear. It is a regime of fear. Betrayal is a regime of fear even more than fascism. They try to overcome their fear by attacking unarmed civilians like this, slaughtering them, and spilling their blood. They are trying to appease themselves.

On this basis, I commemorate Gulistan Tara and Hero Bahadin with respect and gratitude. On their behalf, I commemorate all the martyrs of Sulaymaniyah with respect and gratitude. The press gave the necessary response. They can never be silenced.

Now for the other point: some agreements were already signed on April 22nd. A week before April 22nd, Iraqi Prime Minister Sudani went to America and stayed for a few days. After he came back, he announced a strategic agreement with Turkey, and so a few days later, Tayyip Erdogan visited Baghdad and Hewler (Erbil). Sudani announced his signature when he came from America. So this decision came from America. This is not difficult to understand. America asked the Iraqi government, and it agreed. They are using water as a bargaining chip to genocide the Kurds. Especially AKP-MHP fascism is using this. They have squeezed Iraq in the same way that they are squeezing Syria on these issues. There has been this issue of the Euphrates and Tigris waters since the past, as well as energy issues. They use these as justification, but one can definitely point out that the US is behind this. The US wanted this strategic agreement, and Iraq signed it. Why did the US want this? Because the Tayyip Erdogan administration is an administration assigned by the US to lead the international conspiracy⁴ to success. They say that he came to power through elections, but this is a deception, just a formality. It has nothing to do with reality. What is real is that it is an appointed administration. When the Ecevit government failed and Rêber Apo won the Imrali struggle, a new government was needed. They looked for someone who could do the job; they chose Tayyip Erdogan and formed the party AKP around him. Tayyip Erdogan carried out an attack with all his power in Imrali. His end was like Ecevit’s end. Rêber Apo won the Imrali struggle. Tayyip Erdogan also lost in 2005. After that, the conspiratorial forces could find no other alternative. They constantly supported Tayyip Erdogan. They met with the US president, and foreign ministers came to Turkey. They were always behind the Tayyip Erdogan administration in the struggle in Kurdistan. Whatever they did, they made political attacks as well as military attacks; they developed tricks; they played games under the name of solution, but they could not succeed. The Tayyip Erdogan administration came to the point of collapse. So accordingly, Devlet Bahceli and his MHP were placed at his side as a crutch. The two of them attacked together for years. Again, they were not successful. It again came to the point of collapse. Now they have given him the Barzanis on the other side as a crutch. They are carrying out this ‘collapse plan’⁵ with them. With this, they wanted to crush and destroy the PKK.

The alliance of AKP, MHP, and KDP; in other words, the Tayyip Erdogan, Bahceli, and Barzani alliance failed in its aim of bringing the international conspiracy to success, crushing and destroying the PKK. New crutches were needed. This time, the US told the Iraqi government to be the next crutch. And now they are attacking with that support as well. The US is behind all these attacks; NATO is behind them. By adding the Iraqi state to AKP-MHP fascism, the KDP collaborationism, and betrayal, they now want to weaken the PKK, particularly the guerrilla, in order to reduce its influence on politics and the struggle in Kurdistan and the region. This is the aim. This alliance is an alliance formed on this basis. And it is definitely the international conspiratorial forces that are directing it. There is the USA and also England. NATO gives the biggest support. It is absolutely necessary to be aware of the broader picture of these attacks. Some people think that Tayyip Erdogan is doing it, or that Devlet Bahceli is doing it, and that it would be them who take decisions. They inflate and exaggerate themselves as if they are doing it themselves. But that has nothing to do with reality. Those forces are behind it. Why are they doing this? It’s an internal contradiction, and the conflicts are very deep. Therefore, they intervened in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and also in Syria. They turned the whole Middle East into a war zone. But they cannot overcome the crisis and chaos. They cannot find a way out. There is no solution coming from them. The important focal point of the war is Turkey. They will intervene in Turkey. They will create change in line with their own interests. But they cannot do this as long as the PKK exists. They are afraid that when they intervene, the PKK could win its struggle. There is a historical example for what they are currently planning with Turkey. For more than ten years, they kept Saddam Hussein in power in Baghdad. Back then they said, “Rêber Apo and the PKK exist. If we go against Saddam, the PKK will spread to southern Kurdistan and Iraq.” So they realized the international conspiracy through. They put Rêber Apo under the Imrali system. Then they were able to attack Baghdad. Now, in order to intervene in Turkey in line with their own interests, they want to remove the PKK as an obstacle, as an obstacle to realizing their wishes.

They are afraid that the PKK will develop an alternative, democratic modernity, an alternative system, democratic Turkey on the basis of Kurdish freedom, spreading democracy in the Middle East and the world. That is why they are attacking the PKK in unison. This is a clear fact. This is not difficult to understand. Otherwise, what power do Tayyip Erdogan and Devlet Bahceli have? These are actually unknown people. Some idiots in Turkey have been brainwashed; they are following them; they are clapping their hands. A fascist mob has been formed. Otherwise, there is nothing beyond that. This state is occupying Kurdistan, settling in Bashiqa, taking Kirkuk, taking Rojava, and becoming the master of all these energy resources. But will they feed it to them? If they were to feed this to Turkey, why did the First World War happen? Why was this century-long Middle East war created? Is there anything that can be explained with reason? Some people think that they will feed it to Turkey. This is not the case! It is all a game; it is all planned. Games are being played against Turkey. But Turkey needs to be smart to understand this. Rêber Apo has pointed this out for years when there were talks. He warned that there are games, there are conspiracies, and that it will be the people of Turkey that will face disaster. They didn’t listen, nobody understood, and they didn’t take care of it. Now we are not on the brink of disaster, not on the brink, but almost on it. The AKP-MHP, with their current anti-Kurdish policies, pushed Turkey into such a disaster. They are still supporting it; there is still no one actively opposing it. In such a situation, what is the solution? What is the remedy? The only solution is the democratization of Turkey based on Kurdish freedom. This is the solution for Turkey, the solution for the Middle East, the solution for the world. The solution of democratic confederalism based on democratic autonomy developed by Rêber Apo is the only possible solution of democratic modernity. The salvation of Turkey is in the hands of Rêber Apo. It is necessary to be able to see and understand this. On this basis, we have repeatedly put forward solution projects and made statements as a movement. We will continue our efforts. We are not hopeless, but there is no response in Turkey. Even the circles in Turkey that call themselves left, socialist, and democratic do not understand this reality. They do not see this game. The CHP is heading towards becoming a part of it. You won’t be able to go beyond being an extension of them. In fact, if they understood the situation, if there was a stance and a struggle against this disastrous course of events in Turkey, of course there wouldn’t be so much bloodshed. Solutions would have developed earlier. The peoples would have reached a more fraternal and democratic life without so much oppression, persecution, and exploitation.

An essential core of the attack on the Kurdish freedom movement is, as you have already mentioned, based on betrayal and collaboration. These seem to have deepened even further over the last few years. What can you tell us about this?

The reality of KDP, especially the Barzanis, really needs to be exposed more. It is necessary to show their true face to the world. The deception that is covered up in this regard is most prevalent here. For example, the villages and homes of the people of Bradost, Rekani, Nerwehi, Berwari, Sindi, and dozens of other tribes are being burned by the KDP. The KDP gives the biggest support to the Turkish Republic. Land is being burned, villages are being burned, gardens are being destroyed, and people are being displaced from their homes. There is a complete massacre.

They always show pictures of Gaza, but let the journalists come and have a look at what is going on in Metina, Zap, Heftanin, or Bradost. Despite the ban, Kurdish villagers take to the streets and complain about their situation in the press. “We could hardly save our lives,” they say. They could not save their belongings, nothing. At the same time, the Barzanis are getting bigger and bigger. Their dynasty has grown. They took Hewler and other places. I remember a statistic that was published maybe ten years ago. Already back then, Necirvan Barzani was one of the 100 richest people in the world. Ten years have passed, and now he is probably one of the 50 richest. Masrour Barzani is probably following him. They have stolen so much. For 35 years, they have taken all the riches of southern Kurdistan into their own hands. The press writes about this now. There is no need for us to further elaborate it here. But what needs to be asked is: How can this be allowed? How come the people remain silent? Those who burn and destroy so much are indeed despicable. They are despicable, but shame on those who watch and remain silent.

The cooperation between the Turkish intelligence service (MIT) and the KDP or Parastin⁶ is not new. It has existed since their foundation. This is commonly known. They themselves are not in a position to deny this. They themselves have even openly admitted this on several occasions. Moreover, since 2018, these joint investigation rooms and joint operation rooms mentioned now are already being implemented at the most advanced level. Parastin is to blame for all the attacks that have taken place in the Medya Defense Zones for the last 6 years since 2018. They gave the information to the Turkish press and make them report it. On the basis of MIT’s cooperation with the armed forces, “we have carried out many attacks, and shot PKK members.” It is not MIT that has made these Turkish attacks. There is no MIT in Southern Kurdistan. There is Parastin. MIT and Parastin are one, they are intertwined. Parastin does all the informing. It collects all the intelligence. On this basis, they had massacre after massacre. Not only their hands, but their whole bodies disappeared in a pool of blood.

In these last 6 years, they had not tens, or hundreds, but thousands of freedom fighters massacred. All of the attacks in which thousands of freedom fighters were martyred and in which the Turkish Republic proudly claimed, “I have killed so many,” all happened with Parastin’s denunciation. Yes, it was given under the name of MIT, but Parastin gave all this information to MIT. We have these documents. This is not a new situation. It has been going on for years and on the basis of the most despicable cooperation.

Now the important thing here is this. The Barzanis are being exposed. It is obvious what kind of collaboration and betrayal they are in. The fascist AKP-MHP saw that the support of the betrayal gave them a little breathing space; the gangs and mercenaries gave them a little more breathing space, as those gangs under the name of village guards did. Now they are trying to deploy similar forces like the Barzanis in the north. Those who held hands with Tayyip Erdogan and Bahceli in Ahlat, who call themselves a “Kurdish party,” who we call Hizbulkontra, who call themselves Hudapar, who were once known as Hezbollah, and some of the circles around them are trying to be turned into the new political and military gangs of northern Kurdistan, just like the Barzanis and KDP did in southern Kurdistan. This is a clear fact and a serious danger now.

I would like to express a warning to these circles. We have already warned them from time to time. Collaboration and betrayal had already severely harmed the Kurds a hundred years ago. Those who are now repeating that history will be remembered as the worst people in history. They must not fall into that situation. The PKK will not allow this. They should stop imposing this. Otherwise, history and society will curse them. The circles that are fooled by them should stay away. What does this have to do with Kurdish patriotism? What relation can a Kurd have with the AKP-MHP fascism, which not only massacres in northern Kurdistan but also massacres wherever there are Kurds in southern Kurdistan and Rojava? Can such a person be called a Kurd? He is an obscure fascist like Devlet Bahceli. No one in Turkey would hold his hand. What does it mean to hold his hand? Why does the one who curses every day and has Kurds massacred hold his hand and raise it? Is he not ashamed? Does he not understand this at all? It is a game to make them fight against the Kurds. Just as they did in the past a century ago and succeeded in the Lausanne process, they want to repeat the same thing now. Some people are now trying to play the sinister role of collaborationism and betrayal. They should stay away from this. Otherwise, they will be harmed. The freedom struggle will not allow this. On this basis, I also call on our people. This is the biggest danger. The worst game. Let us see this reality. There must be a clear attitude against them. There must be a clear attitude. Rêber Apo said, “Let us choke such collaboration and betrayal.” They should not be able to go out on the streets. They should not be allowed in public. They should be spit in their faces. Collaboration and betrayal deserve to be drowned. It is not possible to develop the freedom struggle and bring it to victory without their drowning. It is not possible to defeat the colonialist, genocidal enemy without their suffocation. Because they are the most protective and strengthening of the enemy. In this respect, the struggle against the fascist, colonialist, genocidal mentality and system is absolutely inseparable from the struggle against collaboration and betrayal. They are connected like fingernails and toenails. On this basis, everyone must be sensitive. The emergence of a new Barzani in northern Kurdistan must not be allowed or given the opportunity.

Today is September 1, the Day of Peace. On this occasion, millions of people around the world take to the streets to demand an end to war. Most people are talking about the genocidal war in Gaza or the war in Ukraine, but the war here in Kurdistan is also in the spotlight. What would you like to say to the people who are campaigning for peace on the streets?

September 1st was actually a day of war. They called it ‘International Day of Peace’, but on September 1, 1939, Hitler’s fascism crossed the border and attacked Poland. That’s how the so-called World War II started. That is to say, the catastrophic war that lasted 6 years and killed more than 50 million people started with Hitler’s attack on September 1, 1939. In order to reverse this, socialist, progressive, democratic circles declared a day of peace.

Again today, there are calls for peace, but as you mentioned, there is a war. And it has been going on for years, decades. There is no end to it in sight. How can we talk about peace in such a war environment? Only if you fight a big war for peace can it have a meaning. Otherwise, no one will give up the war by saying, “I want peace; peace is good; everyone should give up the war.” War will not end like this. However, those who oppose the war, those who want peace, must wage a struggle for freedom and democracy against this war so that there can be peace. Peace can only come with democracy and freedom. Can there be peace where there is no freedom and democracy? Of course not. So it is necessary to win freedom and democracy and to fight for them. This is the biggest war for peace. In today’s situation, we should not talk about peace but about the war for peace. It is obvious that the greatest pioneer, leader, representative, and solution force of the war for freedom and democracy is Rêber Apo. Those who want to do so must see this leadership. They must unite with his struggle. Especially in Turkey, this should be the case. Turkey is in dire need of peace. The anti-Kurdish mentality and system, most recently the AKP-MHP fascism, has turned Turkey into the most unrestrained, unethical, and unlawful country in the Kurdish war. In order to put a stop to this, it is of course necessary to impose peace in Turkey. And how can this be done? We need to impose freedom and democracy. There can be no peace without Kurdish freedom, without the democratization of Turkey. These are intertwined like fingernails and toenails. In order to win peace, we need to mobilize for the war for freedom and democracy, for the antifascist war. All peacelovers should be involved in such a great antifascist resistance and struggle; they should develop an antifascist resistance front or unity and alliance and develop a great struggle for freedom and democracy that aims to overthrow AKP-MHP fascism. Particularly Turkey needs this more than bread and water. The power to realize this is the Kurds. They struggle with everything they have for freedom and democracy. They do not only want freedom for Kurds; they want democracy for Turkey, the Middle East, and the world. This means the struggle for peace. The pioneer of this is Rêber Apo. Turkey’s freedom and democracy forces, women, and youth movements must unite more strongly with this struggle. Everyone who says they are anti-fascist should recognize this reality, unite with these forces, grow and develop the anti-fascist movement, and try to save Turkey from this AKP-MHP disaster.

It is interesting that some people still keep saying, “There will be war.” For example, Tayyip Erdogan said, “World War III may happen in the future; we need to prepare for it.” But the Third World War is already a reality. War has been happening for decades. How can people not see this? How did the First World War end? It ended with the October Revolution. The Second World War developed in an environment that was different. But it was the October Revolution and the Soviet Union that brought the capitalist modernity system out of its internal contradictions, conflicts, and wars in order to redivide the world and exploit it more. Then the Soviet Union collapsed and the war started again. We called it the Third World War. This is how Rêber Apo evaluated it. In 1990, there was the Gulf Crisis and the war, which has been going on ever since.

If people are not involved in the war, if they do not experience it, they do not understand it. When there is a different situation every now and then, they fall into the situation of evaluating it according to themselves. We need to get rid of this. Some say “preparations are still being made.” Some say it started with Ukraine. It is not like that. There has been a World War III for 35 years since the beginning of 1990. It has been going on all over the Middle East. Those who are curious should open the books of the history of war; wherever World War I took place, they will see that World War III is now also going on there. From Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, and Syria to all the Ottoman lands, all of them are at war again. What is called World War III is actually a search to bring World War I, which ended differently with the October Revolution, to a new conclusion, taking into account the 100 years of development after the collapse of the system created by the October Revolution. At that time, the searches of those who started the war did not come to a conclusion because of the October Revolution. Neither the aims of the German-Ottoman front nor those of the Anglo-French front and their alliances came to any conclusion. Because an alternative was born in Russia. They were afraid of it and had to make different compromises among themselves to prevent it. Also, the Turkish Republic was born in this environment, and this is how the Treaty of Lausanne was formed. They think that they fought very well, celebrated, and won victories. There is no such thing. They made good use of the conjunction. They evaluated the politics well. The Kemalist movement also showed some resistance. It achieved this result under those conditions. But the conditions of 1923 will never happen again. Tayyip Erdogan is focused on this time period. He is reading Abdulhamid and is trying to see if something like that will happen again. He wants to become a second Abdulhamid or a second Mustafa Kemal, but in vain.

The war in other areas, the war in Ukraine, is the spread of war to the Black Sea. The World War I had already spread. Pacific tensions and conflicts are linked to these. There are those who analyze this war who say that World War II ended with the use of the atomic bomb. They say that the next World War will only happen if the atomic bomb is used. But nuclear bombs are already being used everywhere at the tactical level. They just need to look at what is going on in Zap.

This is how this war is going. This is what happens in Gaza. They are sacrificing the Palestinian people here. Now they say this war will spread to Lebanon and Syria. Every place that was a center of war in World War I is today again a center of war in the Middle East. And this is gradually moving towards Turkey. It is eventually going to focus on Turkey. Some people in Turkey saw this; they understand it. They are aware of this. To prevent this, they are trying to provoke an Israeli-Iranian war. They already started an Israeli war with Hamas, and now they are trying to provoke a Hezbollah-Israel war. They are trying with all their might to prevent the war from approaching Turkey, but in vain. They will not be able to do so. Let’s make this clear. This war will come; Turkey is going to be a center of war. The only thing that will save Turkey from this situation is democratization on the basis of Kurdish freedom and creating democratic unity with the peoples of the region, organizing a democracy front, a peace front against this war by forming the democratic Middle East confederalism. This is the only way for Turkey to survive. No one can get out of this war by any other method, in any other way. Like Tayyip Erdogan, by expanding into Syria and Iraq, one can plunge into the war. Those waging this war are actually using Tayyip Erdogan as an agent. Eventually it will be Turkey’s turn.

As I mentioned earlier, it was Rêber Apo who foresaw this. He evaluated how much damage this would cause for the peoples, he tried to prevent it, developed alternative ideas, developed political projects, and put forward the will for a solution. But he was prevented and is being prevented. The international conspiracy attack is an attack to prevent exactly this. The fact that no news has been received from Rêber Apo for 42 months is actually to make this politics work. That is why they are preventing even a word of Rêber Apo from coming out in order to prevent the development that will prevent this catastrophe. Everyone should be aware of this. You cannot just say we want peace. This is serious. Everyone should come to their senses. Let’s understand capitalism correctly. Let’s understand the internal relations of the capitalist modernity system correctly. Let’s open, read, and analyze the first World War. 100 years of developments… I mean, what is Turkey’s place to stand up to Israel and launch a new energy route project against Israel? The most extreme point of capital is Israel. The US, the UK, they are all behind it.

In this respect, the current situation requires a more accurate understanding. In the reality of this World War, we should not be confused like this. Everyone should stop saying, “There will be preparations; it will come later, this and that.” The danger is great. We are fighting to prevent the danger from having more serious consequences and, if possible, to achieve peace and democracy. Everyone should understand this. Those who really want this should give strength and support to this. This is our promise, our call, our invitation.

While the genocidal war is being waged by the fascist Turkish state, nature continues to be targeted and exploited. It is something that is often overlooked or perceived as a separate problem, even though there is resistance in some places. What can you tell us about this?

The exploitation of man and the exploitation of nature are forms of oppression that go hand in hand. Fascist terror, the oppression and exploitation of the male-dominated mentality and system on women, means attacks and exploitation against nature. On the other hand, this means that ensuring the free coexistence of society, democratic self-administration, and the freedom of women is the basis for living peacefully in harmony with nature. Destroying nature is the origin of every form of oppression and exploitation, fascist dictatorship, the male-dominated system, and aggression to the maximum. This is how it should be handled. So, just as we want women’s freedom, we want the freedom of society, we want democracy – and these can only be realized through a correct approach to nature. Accordingly, we need to mobilize against the attacks that destroy, plunder, burn, and destroy our atmosphere and nature. They are building hydroelectric power plants; they are mining; they have made the country uninhabitable; society has become unable to produce; it is being poisoned. How can we live without air, without opportunities for economic production, without soil, environment, and greenery? These are being destroyed for the maximum profit of some people. This must not be allowed to happen. Everyone must resist against this. We need to become more conscious. Social ecology movements, consciousness, organization, and action must develop more.

We attach great importance to every stance and struggle on this basis. All our people, all the peasants, all the villagers, all the kocers⁷, wherever they are, must protect their own lands, their own assets as they protect their own lands. It is absolutely necessary not to allow this fascist, colonialist, genocidal system to plunder nature.

We salute all the struggles carried out on this basis. Everyone who calls themselves free and democratic should support and participate. This struggle still remains weak. In most places the struggle takes place quite isolated, but particularly the villagers are carrying out a very valuable and meaningful resistance. They need more solidarity and support. Everyone who considers themselves libertarian, democratic socialist, and democratic should protect these places more than anything else. Priority should be here.

Social freedom on the basis of women’s freedom and protecting nature are intertwined. In this respect, it is necessary to overcome the current weak approaches, to make the ecological struggle more organized and effective in every field, and to wage the war against fascism much more effectively from this front.

Our call is directed towards all women, all our people, all the peoples of Turkey. Because AKP-MHP fascism is not only anti-human, anti-people, anti-women, and anti-Kurdish, but it is also an enemy of nature, an enemy of forests, and an enemy of land. This animosity must be stopped.

Finally, I would like to talk about the Kurdish Cultural Festival in Frankfurt, which is also coming up in the near future. What do you have to say about it?

We can define the importance of the 32nd Kurdish Culture Festival in Frankfurt in terms of timing. We are approaching the end of the first year of our global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. It is an action that takes place at a time when the anniversary is approaching, which gives it more meaning.

The cultural festival has become an important tradition within the last decades. Through the festival, the Kurds always asserted their existence, presented themselves to the peoples of Europe, and spread their culture. They expressed their democratic demands. But this year’s festival is also an action that marks the first anniversary of our global freedom campaign. It is necessary to organize accordingly. We have to work harder; we have to attach more importance to it. Our people and our friends in Europe should definitely define it in this way, and they should embrace and mobilize accordingly.

They must make our global freedom campaign reach a new peak. The biggest duty and responsibility in this falls on the youth. Of course. The youth are already in constant action for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. They are starting a long march before the festival, and they are preparing the festival as well as the environment for it. They are leading the way.

This is important and, of course, meaningful. All young people, Kurdish youth and international youth, all our young friends, and young comrades should see the meaning and importance of this and accordingly make their marches the most spectacular, with the widest participation, with the most concrete demands, and not only that, that is, they should participate most actively in the preparatory work for the festival at the leading level.

I am calling for participation in the festival, and I celebrate it. I especially call on the Kurdish youth and the international youth to mobilize for such a festival to be the most spectacular.

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