our interviews

For 26 years, peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan has been raising a great resistance against the system of denial and annihilation under the harsh conditions in Imrali. As is well known, there was no sign of life from him for 44 months. Most recently, on October 23rd, Omer Ocalan, MP from Riha (tr. Urfa), was allowed to hold a meeting with Rêber Apo. How do you evaluate both Rêber Apo’s message and the ongoing isolation?

After 44 months, for the first time again, we heard from Rêber Apo in the framework of a meeting with his family, and he sent us his greetings. First of all, as his comrades and both on behalf of our movement and on behalf of women, with great love and respect we received Rêber Apo’s greetings, and we also greet Rêber Apo’s resistance and stance with respect and love.

First of all, it must be emphasized that this meeting was Rêber Apo’s right. The family, the lawyers, as well as human rights and other international non-governmental organizations, must be allowed to meet him. This is Rêber Apo’s legal right. But of course it is known that Rêber Apo is no ordinary prisoner. The way he was abducted is well known. An international conspiracy took place, at the end of which he was handed over to the Turkish state. Rêber Apo is being held hostage – this became clear once through the last meeting. Because his right to hold meetings is being exploited as a bargaining chip. They want to use this meeting as blackmail politics against our people, our movement, and our leadership.

Rêber Apo has been in Imrali for 26 years and has been resisting relentlessly, particularly in the past 44 months. At the same time, our people have been resisting continuously under the leadership of women and youth; thousands of prisoners are struggling, and our movement has given thousands of martyrs to break the isolation and ensure the physical freedom, health, and safety of Rêber Apo. The recent meeting is a result of this struggle.

Before the meeting, the fascist Erdogan-Bahceli government had started playing new games. Bahceli had spoken several times in the parliament and had tried to create a discourse in public opinion about a possible new solution process. He even said that Rêber Apo should come to the parliament and speak there. So before the meeting, they wanted to create an expectation that there was something new. The message Rêber Apo conveyed through Omer Ocalan, both MP of Riha and nephew of Rêber Apo, was: “The isolation continues.” and “I have the theoretical and practical power to move this process from the grounds of conflict and violence to the legal and political grounds if the conditions arise.”

This stance and attitude of Rêber Apo made the governments mask fall. They say many things but do not think of implementing them in practice. Again, they thought of playing such a game to break the effect of the global campaign for Rêber Apo’s physical freedom, to create some expectations in society, but not to actually do anything. Rêber Apo has shown his stance and emphasized that if they have a sincere will, he is ready and has the strength to play his role. Immediately following this statement by Rêber Apo, the co-presidency of the KCK Executive Council, and later other comrades also issued statements on behalf of the movement, underlining that we stand behind Rêber Apo’s decision and the process he is developing. They wanted to create a contradiction between the PKK, Rêber Apo, and KCK, but they didn’t succeed in it. Immediately afterwards, they have again given Rêber Apo a three-month visiting ban. In fact, this means that their words are lies, that they are not ready for a true solution process, and that they will insist on the politics of denial and destruction against the Kurdish people.

They continue their concept unabated and focus on Rêber Apo. Yesterday, Rêber Apo emphasized that he was ready to work out a joint solution, and today he is being given a disciplinary punishment. They are not ready for such a process. That was to be expected, because what we see are the intensifying attacks against the Medya Defense Zones, the continued genocidal policies in the political sphere, and the constantly growing extent of attacks against the Kurdish people and the whole of Kurdistan. This government does not have the mentality to solve the Kurdish question. It is a government that is based on enmity against the Kurds. Their lies, their dirty aims, and their true faces were once again revealed. The fact that we received news from Rêber Apo and received his greeting is the result of a great struggle and resistance. The greeting of Rêber Apo gave us strength; we received it with respect and love, and we are making this greeting the basis of a great struggle to break the isolation. It is required to spread the struggle to all areas more and massify the resistance. Only resistance can ensure Rêber Apo’s physical freedom; only struggle can guarantee his safety and health. On this basis, the struggle must be strengthened and grown.

Rêber Apo’s resistance in Imrali is the basis of the struggle of the Kurdish people and the guerrilla. The guerrilla is becoming more and more successful every day in the ongoing war in the Medya Defense Zones. The latest sacrificial action by comrade Asya and Rojger showed that the guerrilla of the democratic modernity can overcome any obstacles and reach its goal wherever it may be.

In this context, I would like to commemorate with respect and gratitude the honorable heroes of Kurdistan, comrade Asya Ali and Rojger Helin, who followed the tradition and path of our commander, the goddess of freedom, comrade Zilan. I bow with respect in the face of their great will and courageous stance. Also on this occasion, I respectfully commemorate all martyrs of November by commemorating the martyred commanders of our special forces, comrade Delal Amed, Reshit Serdar, and Shilan Kobane.

What message should be taken from the war waged by the guerrilla? Both the stage reached by the guerrilla resistance and the action carried out by our two comrades showed everyone the truth. The freedom movement is waging a struggle along the lines of Rêber Apo. The freedom guerrilla is the guerrilla of all Kurdistan and the guerrilla in defense of Rêber Apo. In particular, the ‘Battalion of the Immortals’, of which comrade Asya and Roger were a part, was founded by those who defend Rêber Apo against any false approach, who fight against the fascist mentality behind the isolation and prevent the isolation from becoming a bargaining chip against the peoples of Kurdistan. In this course, our comrades carried out an action against the center in Ankara, where all the materials used in the genocidal war are produced. It was an action with a clear target. The action chosen by these comrades was aimed at a military target. It was carried out in a sacrificial manner and showed what stage the guerrilla struggle has reached.

The letters that the two comrades wrote to become part of the Battalion of the Immortals have been circulating in public for several days. These letters are a manifesto for a free life. The struggle of comrade Asya and Rojger must be understood and analyzed correctly. It should not be glossed over by saying that it was just one action. Before that, in 2022, comrade Sara and Ruken carried out their action in Mersin. Again in 2023, comrade Erdal and Rojhat carried out their action in Ankara. Now, in 2024, the level of this action has been raised to an even higher level, and a target that was considered unattainable has been hit. Therefore, everyone, especially the enemies of the Kurdish people, should be careful in their calculations.

The action of comrade Asya and Rojger took place close to the meeting with Rêber Apo. Our movement had already made a statement that the comrades formed an autonomous unit, determining their targets and the way and time of their action themselves. Neither did our movement know about the meeting with Rêber Apo nor when the comrades would take action. No one knew of the meeting until it was announced publicly.

The action has torn the masks off the faces of many who have recently tried to hide behind deceiving statements. Therefore, this action is an appropriate and timely action. It was also not an action against civilians. It took place according to the rules of war. Kurdish people are being massacred every day with the weapons made in this center. For example, just the other day, families were massacred in Shehba with the weapons produced there. Again, there are the atrocities that were committed by the enemy in Cizir Botan (tr. Cizre), Hezex (tr. Idil), Nisebin (tr. Nusaybin), and Sur in 2015 and 2016, that comrade Rojger described in his letter. Comrade Asya and Rojger showed what it means to struggle for and live a free life. They showed when, where, and what kind of stance to take and what kind of deep love is therefore needed. As long as this genocidal politics, these massacres, and attacks against the Kurdish people continue, no one will be able to stop the Battalion of the Immortals. Not getting any news from Rêber Apo in over 44 months, of course, leads the freedom guerrillas to take action against it. Our comrades have stated everything about their actions in their letters. They should be read, and everybody should take a stance according to them.

There has been a great continuing resistance of the guerrilla this year. The resistance will continue with all kinds of actions. There is a relentless struggle and great resistance in the areas of northern Kurdistan, Dersim (tr. Tunceli), Serhat, Bagok, Botan, Amed (tr. Diyarbakir), and the Medya Defense Zones. On this occasion, I greet the Kurdistan freedom guerrillas with respect and dignity and send my love. Most recently, our comrade Memed Cudi, commander in the Merdin (tr. Mardin) area, martyred. I remember comrade Memed Cudi with respect and gratitude. He put up a great resistance and was involved in crucial works before he gave his life in combat.

The few successes they achieve against the guerrillas are only due to betrayal. In northern Kurdistans, the village guards, gangs, mercenaries, and those who collaborate with the enemy play a crucial role in the strategy of the enemy. In the Medya Defense Zones, it is the Barzani family clan and its KDP that, through their treason, pave the way for the Turkish state. They guide the Turkish state and build roads to encircle the guerrilla. The Turkish state cannot get results against the freedom struggle and therefore attacks civilian areas. Using the action in Ankara as a pretext, they attacked North and East Syria and Shengal (Sinjar). In North and East Syria, 18 people were martyred, dozens were wounded, and 6 people were martyred in Shengal. I commemorate all the martyrs with respect and express my condolences to the families of the martyrs. We share their pain. I have great respect for their stance against the enemy. All the families of the martyrs stood firm against the enemy’s attacks. This is of great significance. In fact, these attacks also show the Iraqi government’s disrespect towards the people of Shengal. Even under Saddam, this community was not surrendered to the enemy in such an open way. Instead of doing its duty towards the very people who have been subjected to so many fermans and were directly persecuted by the mercenaries and gangs of ISIS, the Iraqi government made agreements with the Turkish state. It did not take a stand against the attacks on the Êzidî (Yazidi) community and still cooperates with the Turkish state for its own interests. This is a disgrace for Iraq. This must be underlined.

Both in Shengal and in North and East Syria, our people must organize against these attacks, strengthen their self-defense, and increase their defense mechanisms. Again, our people must gather around their self-defense forces. The guerrilla is doing its part, and our people must fulfill their role within the framework of the revolutionary people’s war. Revolution is a joint effort. The guerrilla is carrying out actions in many areas from Zap, over Xakurke, Dersim, and Merdin, until Ankara, and the people should both take precautions against genocidal attacks everywhere and unite around the guerrilla. In this way, the struggle will succeed. The guerrilla has raised the bar of struggle through comrade Asya and Rojger. They have shown what kind of stance should be taken.

The Third World War is gradually spreading in the Middle East. This war being waged follows the mentality of the dominant men and aims to turn the world into a hell. In this war, it is the women who are the most oppressed, but the world turns a blind eye to this. How does the war affect women?

Rêber Apo already spoke of the Third World War when the intervention in the Middle East in 1990/91 started. When the ruling powers wanted to spread the Third World War to the Middle East in general, they developed the international conspiracy against Rêber Apo in order to lift the obstacles in front of them. Of course, we are not strangers to this war; we are part of it, since it is also being waged against us. The war affects all societies. And as pointed out, it’s the mind of the dominant men that is waging this war. An ideological and political war is being waged against society, particularly women and their values. This war is being waged against anyone who opposes the mentality of the dominant men. As you mentioned, women, children, defenseless people, and society as a whole are in the greatest danger in this war and genocide. This reality is crucial and needs to be emphasized. The war in Gaza has been going on for more than a year, and it can be observed that most of the killed are women and children. In Kurdistan, we are experiencing the same. The Third World War is centered in Kurdistan. With the abduction of Rêber Apo, this war started against the Kurds. There is not a day without a massacre in Kurdistan.

The question must be, what kind of struggle should be waged to prevent the dirty mentality waging this war from achieving results? Our struggle is exemplary here. All women must strengthen their self-defense and become more conscious and organized. A woman who is not organized is doomed to a horrible life and death. As Rêber Apo has said in the past, if a woman is not organized and left to the mercy of men, she cannot survive. Women are being murdered every day. Not only in war, the real war against women takes place in society. Women are also targeted in the war with tanks and artillery, but there is also a terror against women in society. The terror against women starts at home and reaches the state level. Women must organize strongly, unite, and take a common stance against these attacks. The women’s freedom movement is fighting under the leadership of PAJK, the KJK system, and YJA Star, its defense force. On this occasion, I would like to congratulate all freedom guerrillas and women on the 32nd anniversary of the founding of our women’s army, YJA Star, which has come to this day under the leadership of comrades like Beritan, Zilan, Azime, Zelal, Delal, Leyla, and Axin.

Today, the capitalist powers waging the Third World War are attacking societies with all their technologies. As freedom movement, we stand against these sovereign powers and struggle for this. It is clear how women should defend themselves and how they should be united and organized. Women must develop their power and organization in every field, may it be in villages, factories, on the streets, in schools, or in all areas of life. If this does not happen, the consequences of the war will be more severe. We can only stop this war started by the mentality of the dominant men with the power and struggle of women. Women must trust themselves. They can achieve success if they develop a common struggle. This is what needs to be emphasized the most. Because the male-dominated mind recognizes nothing but its own power. It does not recognize the will of women; it does not recognize their existence; it does not see them as equal. Only a common struggle against this can achieve results.

We see how women and children are brutally murdered in Turkey and around the world recently. Most recently, we have heard about a gang in Turkey that deliberately abducted and murdered children. How can society save women and young people from this rotten system? What are the necessary ways and methods?

We are approaching November 25th, which marks the international day for the elimination of violence against women. November 25th went down in history as a day of massacre. The Mirabal sisters, three sisters from the Dominican Republic, were murdered because of their struggle for freedom and equality for women. We respectfully commemorate the Mirabal sisters and all women who were victims of the male mind. Kurdistan is also a place where countless revolutionary, struggling women have been massacred. Comrade Sakine, Leyla, Rojbin, Seve, Fatma, Pakize, Nagihan, Hevrin Xelef, Zehra, Mother Aqide, and thousands of women in society were murdered by the male-dominated mentality. We should not consider November 25 as just one day; the struggle for women’s freedom requires continuity. This struggle must be continued every day. As the Kurdish women’s freedom movement, every price we pay is a reason for us to increase our struggle even more. All women can and should make these massacres and attacks the basis for a new beginning and common struggle.

The murder of Narin, an eight-year-old child, is still being discussed, but the state, more precisely the government, the family, the sects, and Hizbul-Contra all conceal this murder. It is still unclear how Rojin, a student in Wan, was murdered. These massacres are happening every day in front of the eyes of the world. They stab women in the street, and people watch.

We always say that women should increase their struggle; of course this is the right thing to do. The state, the power, and the male-dominated system are putting up everything against women’s freedom. Women’s freedom means the freedom of society. No one has provided so many opportunities in this regard like Rêber Apo. His philosophy and ideology created a great breakthrough in women’s freedom. Attacks against women are ideological. They are attacks against women’s freedom.

The system commits all kinds of massacres against women in order to keep itself alive. The media does not cover this and instead creates a wrong perception in society. It kills society’s reflexes and normalizes what is going on. This is how this patriarchal system wants to create an empire of fear. I would like to take this opportunity to point out that especially democratic, revolutionary, and socialist men who are against the system have the biggest duty in this regard. A man who struggles against this system must first and foremost raise his voice against it. And he must correct his own approach towards women. So much is happening, so many things are developing, but nothing is being said about this. Except for the freedom movement, everyone is silent as if it were normal. However, the most fundamental question of socialism must be the approach to women.

If one does not defend free coexistence, if one does not defend the freedom of women, if one does not accept this, then how can this person call himself a socialist, a democrat, or an intellectual? Fascism is already doing its fascist thing; the government is already acting according to its mentality, but we are talking about other groups; there is a deficiency here. The people I refer to should read Rêber Apo. I take this opportunity to call on them, especially young men, to deepen in the philosophy of Rêber Apo. He said, “I killed the masculinity in myself.” He even said that no man who does not kill masculinity in himself can establish the right comradeship with women and create a democratic family and a democratic society. Rêber did not say these things just for the sake of saying them. He stated that a society must be created on this basis.

November 25th should be a day of self-criticism for men. They must oppose this violence; they should build up hate against this masculinity and refuse it. They should correct themselves towards their wives, daughters, and sisters. Men are in a state of oblivion here. They put all the responsibility on the woman’s shoulders and say that the woman should change them. Of course, as the freedom movement, we see ourselves as responsible and we have such a duty. As PAJK and KJK, we provide education; we have a duty to change and transform society, but men also need to make efforts. Massacres, harassment, and rape against women destroy human values. Because women are the defenders of human values, attacks against women are attacks against life. Rêber Apo’s strength emerges here because he is a true comrade with women; he understands women. From the foundation of our movement until today, the gender struggle is fundamental to us. If this struggle is not waged on a daily basis, freedom cannot be achieved.

A strong gender struggle creates real comrades like comrade Rojger and Asya. To struggle for gender is to struggle for freedom. It should be struggled in this way in society as well. Our movement has a 50-year history of struggle. For example, in a place like Amed, the capital of democracy, women are massacred! Women are massacred in Wan (tr. Van) and Elih (tr. Batman) as well. There is not a day in southern Kurdistan when women are not massacred. Of course, this is not only happening in Kurdistan; this happens all over the world, from America to Africa, from Latin America to Europe. According to statistics, violence against women is most developed in Europe and is mostly experienced within family. You know, they used to say that they are the center of democracy, but when we look, we see that women are not free. Women’s struggle must become more socialized.

The members of KJK and KCK should start with themselves and their families. They must first realize the paradigm of the free women developed by Rêber Apo in themselves. This is the right thing to do. You don’t just join in protests on March 8 or on November 25, and that’s it. This is not how it works. Rêber Apo said that a free woman is more valuable to him than a country. We struggle on the basis of this philosophy. On November 25th, of course, mass protests should be organized; people should take to the streets, but it should be based on how the whole society, men, should live with women. It should be based on how to be a true comrade, how to be a militant in the line of women’s liberation. Here, PKK and PAJK militants are exemplary. For example, comrade Rojger wrote in his letter that his action is also a self-criticism to his female comrades. What is more valuable than that? He tears himself to pieces and still gives self-criticism. Those who follow in the footsteps of these comrades and say that they work on the creation of a free society on the basis of this idea-philosophy must act according to this measure. What is the measure? One must consciously approach his family, his wife, his sister, and his female comrades. They should not dominate or bully women.

There are enough who call themselves democrats but constantly turn against women and tell them that they should know their place. As soon as a woman makes a mistake, there is immediately a heavy reaction, whereas with a man it is simply accepted. This is how fascist chief Erdogan is when it comes to women. Out of nowhere, he withdrew from the Istanbul Convention, a law that defends women’s rights to the lowest extent. Every day he appears in the media and tells women that they should have so and so many children and that they should wear so and so. He threatens society every day. Women’s struggle against this is very important. But as I said, the groups I mentioned also have shortcomings in this sense.

For example, I salute the men of Kobane in this regard. For how many years now, men have been taking to the streets and participating actively in protests there on November 25th? Of course, like I said, it should not only be on November 25th. Wherever there is violence, the struggle must be strengthened, and they must not allow violence to happen. When they see violence against women on the street, when they see someone inflicting violence on their family, they should intervene and oppose those who immorally trade in women. They must organize and take a stand; this is what valor and bravery mean. In this sense, no one should play the blind, the deaf, and the mute monkeys. I believe that society can be based on the basis of women’s freedom, on the basis of free women and free men.

What makes the PKK so invincible is the women’s freedom movement; the essence of the PKK is the women’s freedom party. Rêber Apo said at the very beginning that the PKK must be a women’s party. The PKK is the party of women, the party of the Asyas, Rojgers, Rukens, Saras, Rojhats, and Erdals. My call to all women, to all those who oppose the male-dominated system: they should participate strongly and massively in the protests on November 25th and devote every day to this struggle. Women must strengthen their self-defense; they must not leave a single unorganized woman out there. An organized woman is the greatest power, and women’s defense can only be achieved through organization. They should provide whatever is necessary for the organization; they should raise awareness on the basis of Jineoloji. As the freedom movement, we struggle on this basis, and our struggle is for a free society, a democratic nation, and a democratic world. This is the most sacred thing in the century we live in.

Founded on November 27, 1978, the PKK is about to leave 46 years behind and is about to enter its 47th year. What would you like to say on the occasion of the approaching 46th anniversary of the PKK?

November 27th is the day of our resurrection, the day when Rêber Apo’s ideas and thoughts of 1973 were transformed into a party and a program in 1978 and made known to society. I congratulate Rêber Apo on this sacred day. We are grateful to Rêber Apo for giving us and our people these ideas, thoughts, and honor. I wish a happy November 27th to all mothers, women, our people, and our international friends who are struggling for the physical freedom, health, and security of Rêber Apo. The truth of Rêber Apo has emerged in the PKK and PAJK. It has emerged in the militancy of the PKK and PAJK. In the 21st century, humanity needs Rêber Apo very much. Because Rêber Apo is the vein of resistance, the vein of struggle. It is Rêber Apo, the system he created, the Democratic Confederalism, that represents women’s freedom, the freedom of all living beings, the freedom of nature, and the struggle for it. And the PKK and PAJK are the pioneers of this.

On the 46th anniversary of our party, we must embrace the achieved values even more. As the party of martyrs, the PKK is much stronger than ever. It has militants like comrade Asya and Rojger, like Memed Cudi, like Berwar. The party of martyrs is growing day by day. We are experiencing enthusiasm and morale on the occasion of the approaching anniversary of the founding of our party. The upcoming year will be the year of building the system of Democratic Confederalism. The PKK today is the hope of all the oppressed. I call on all our people, women and youth; the upcoming year we must celebrate the anniversary of our party more enthusiastically than ever before. We must unite around Rêber Apo. This is the call of comrade Asya and Rojger. In this spirit, our people should participate in all actions in the coming period.

A massive action is going to take place in Cologne, Germany on November 16th. It must be used as an opportunity to pass on the message sent by Rêber Apo to millions. Therefore I call on all our people in Europe, especially our people in Germany, the Êzidî community, the Alevi community, the youth, women, our international friends who have worked so hard for Rêber Apo’s physical freedom in this period, to flock to Cologne with the enthusiasm and morale of the anniversary of the founding of the PKK and show the whole world that we that we do not tolerate one more hour in which the isolation of Rêber Apo continues. I believe that our people are making their preparations and will participate in the demonstration in this spirit. I send my greetings and love to everyone who will participate in the demonstration and wish them great success.