our interviews

I would like to start our conversation with a question for you about the current situation. Over the last few weeks, a certain discourse has developed about the Kurdish question and possible solution processes in Turkey. Also, for the first time in many months, a meeting has taken place again with the peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan. How are these developments to be understood? How do they relate to each other? And what action needs to be taken?

After four years of total isolation, there was again a meeting with Rêber Apo¹. And Rêber Apo conveyed his greetings to everyone. We also send our greetings with longing, love, and respect. Receiving greetings from Rêber Apo was a morale boost for us and for all our people. It has been very difficult not to hear from him or get any news about him for four years. In this respect, hearing that the meeting took place was important news for us.

Devlet Bahceli shook hands with the MP’s of the DEM Party on October 1 and made statements talking about making peace “outside and inside.” The meeting with Rêber Apo took place during such developments, and of course it was evaluated and interpreted in many different ways. Of course, such evaluations and interpretations can come to mind in the context of Devlet Bahceli’s call to Rêber Apo and Erdogan’s support for this call. For those who are not aware of the truth, for those who do not see what is going on, such evaluations are understandable. However, one must point out that the meeting with Rêber Apo is not directly related to Devlet Bahceli’s statements and the subsequent discussions.

For years there has been a great struggle for the lifting of the isolation imposed on Rêber Apo and for his physical freedom. For four years there has been no meeting and no information. There is the struggle of our people, the struggle of our people in Europe, and the struggle of our international friends that is really challenging the Turkish State. There is pressure on the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) and on the Council of Ministers (CM) of the Council of Europe (CoE), which led to the fact that more pressure is being put on Turkey. Turkey was faced with difficulties in continuing its isolation. After four years, the pressure and problems have increased to such an extent that such discussions are taking place. It is clear from Devlet Bahceli’s speeches that the Turkish state was in such an obsessive situation that they had to agree to a meeting with Rêber Apo in order to free themselves from the pressure. Especially in view of the current situation, he wanted to play with people’s feelings and perceptions.

The struggle against the isolation, which has been going on for many years, and the struggle for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo is what led to this meeting. Since the state was having such a very difficult time and the republic was having such a very difficult time, it wanted to get rid of the pressure on it by having this meeting. They arranged this meeting to create some confusion in this period, to create a perception as if there was a softening, as if there could be a different approach to the Kurdish question.

Many people outside of us started to think about a solution process; they thought and discussed it. But let me emphasize that this meeting with Rêber Apo has absolutely nothing to do with these recent discussions. As I mentioned, it is one meeting that emerged as a result of a four-year struggle.

Rêber Apo did not say the isolation was lifted. If there would be a change in the states approach towards the Kurdish question, the isolation would be lifted. The isolation should be lifted, but it continues. Shortly after the meeting, Rêber Apo was given a disciplinary punishment. The fact that this meeting took place should not be interpreted differently; it should not be thought to have arisen for different reasons; it should be seen as what it is, the result of years of struggle, and the struggle should be continued with the awareness that isolation still continues. The struggle and resistance should definitely not be loosened. Because the meeting with Rêber Apo was not only a morale booster for the people, but also the reflection of the few sentences of the Rêber Apo’s thoughts was important in many respects, namely in terms of giving direction, gaining understanding, and giving a message about how events and facts are approached. The struggle against isolation must continue.

My comrades have already evaluated and put forward this in a comprehensive manner. Rêber Apo himself said “the isolation continues”. This means that we will continue the struggle. This meeting was achieved through struggle, and the struggle must continue. Rêber Apo emphasized that this should not lead to any laxity. There are perceptions created by the special war in society and individuals. Misunderstandings arise as a result of the campaigns carried out by the special war forces. Especially today, where there are dozens of televisions, and other tools and means in service of the special war of the state, perceptions can be distorted. Under no circumstances should one fall for them. Our people are aware of this and say themselves everywhere that the isolation continues. Everywhere in northern Kurdistan and elsewhere it is said that the isolation continues and that the struggle will continue. This is positive.

There will soon be a big rally in Cologne, Germany, on November 16th. There the struggle against isolation will be put forward. In the second year of the global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, initiated by our international friends, a new rally is being organized. A very strong participation is needed there.

No struggle is in vain. One must never forget that only through struggle can achievements be created. Also, one shall not forget that the Kurds are a people under genocide. The leader of the Kurdish people is also under genocidal pressure. The policy applied to Rêber Apo is a policy of genocide. Destroying the leader of a people, destroying its consciousness, destroying its direction, is also destroying all the values of that people. Because for every people, for every society, leaders are the sum of values. They are the most important representation of their values. Destroying him means destroying and attacking all values. Our people must embrace Rêber Apo with this awareness. We are convinced that through the struggle, Rêber Apo will be liberated.

Yes, the struggle is difficult. It is being waged with great difficulty. The struggle in every field is carried out under difficult conditions. But this struggle carried out under difficult conditions will surely succeed. The difficulties show the importance of the struggle and how hard the enemy’s reality is. Without a strong struggle against such a reality, without fighting no matter what the conditions are, there will be no results. To expect success easily, to expect that results will be achieved easily, is to not recognize the genocidal colonialist reality, to not understand the Kurdish reality, the reality of Kurdistan, and its position in the Middle East. In this respect, everyone should struggle no matter what the difficulties are and succeed. They should not see the difficulties as an obstacle. Difficulties are a reason to struggle in the Kurdish reality, in the reality of the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. It is not another factor.

How did this change in approach come about all of a sudden?

This is something that needs to be well understood. Probably no one deals with the Kurdish question and the war against the Kurdish people as intensively as we do through our responsible struggle against it. For 50 years we have been waging this struggle. We know genocidal colonialism. We know what kind of struggle these 50 years have been. In this respect, when evaluating Devlet Bahceli’s and Erdogan’s speech, it is necessary to consider them within the totality of this struggle. It is necessary to consider it within the totality of the war being waged against us, against the Kurdish people.

In this respect, of course, with all due respect, we have more advantages than anyone else in terms of understanding such discourses and knowing what they are. Because we are constantly struggling, we are at war. We almost think and calculate their daily thoughts and what their daily moves will be. We are in a position to understand why Devlet Bahceli or Erdogan would resort to such a discourse, since we know in which political environment, under which conditions we are struggling, what the situation of the genocidal colonialist front is, what the situation of the Middle East is, what the situation of our struggle is, and all the conditions.

So what happened? Why does Devlet Bahceli, who until yesterday used genocidal rhetoric and poisonous language and completely denied the Kurdish existence, attack not only the DEM Party but all Kurds, all those who carry out the struggle of the Kurdish people, all kinds of attacks and blasphemies, say, “Let’s make peace”? There must be a reason for this. In this respect, of course, various reasons are being discussed. The AKP-MHP government is facing difficulties outside and is also facing difficulties inside. This is a fact. But it is wrong to draw a conclusion like this. ‘They want to get out of this difficulty by solving the Kurdish question’. It is wrong to think like that. Yes, they are having difficulties outside; they are having difficulties inside, but there is a war of genocide they are waging against the Kurds. In the process of being under massive pressure, they want to bring the war they are waging against the Kurds to a conclusion. It is necessary to be aware of this. They didn’t change their mentality regarding the Kurdish question. They do not have a democratic mentality or interest in solving the Kurdish question. A democratic mentality is necessary to solve it. It is necessary to adopt a mentality that accepts the existence of the Kurdish people, their identity, and their culture. There is no such thing in the current government, especially not in the MHP, not in Devlet Bahceli. In this respect, one must carefully evaluate why this step was taken.

The difficulties in the region, the war being waged by Israel, them saying that Israel would attack Turkey – there is a great war going on in the Middle East. A war is being waged that has the effect of shaking the Middle East balances. This goes hand in hand with Turkey’s geopolitical power and influence being gradually diminishing. For 150 years, Turkey’s geopolitical position, which it has used, marketed, and which was its most important political power, is no longer in its former strength, no longer in its former influence. We cannot say that it has completely disappeared. But it is no longer in a position to make itself a hegemonic power, to use it as blackmail, to use it as a bargaining chip. The development of relations between Israel and the Arabs and the search for different energy routes reveal this. These are, of course, worrisome for Turkey. The AKP-MHP government has brought Turkey to this point as a result of its own policies. Now it wants to take all opposition forces behind it and maintain its own position. It wants to make itself a power in this complex geography. But it is its policies that have brought Turkey to this situation. It is the AKP-MHP government that has caused Turkey to have problems both in regional politics and at home.

Now there was the speech of Devlet Bahceli, and Erdogan supported it. It cannot be said that there is a problem between Erdogan and Devlet Bahceli. It is not right to think that they are involved in just a simple tactical relationship on such an important issue or that they would engage in such things without each other’s knowledge. They talked beforehand, and afterwards Devlet Bahceli took such a step. Otherwise, even to think that Devlet Bahceli has surpassed the AKP on the Kurdish issue, that he has come to a more reasonable point, is to not know the reality of the MHP, to not know the reality of the Turkish state.

Gradually, this is now being accepted. Ahmet Turk also said in his speech, “Such things are being said. When these things are not accepted because there is nothing, then they will come at us with more violence. There is such a game.” Yes, there is such a game. This game is mainly played on the DEM Party. They will say, “We gave you the space to do politics; we approached you softly; you didn’t respond to that,” and then they will come at them with violence and repression. We don’t need to evaluate this. Devlet Bahceli, Mehmet Ucun, and Erdogan all pointed this out clearly by themselves. There is no need to complicate this so much, no need to evaluate what it is and what it is not. One could interpret Mehmet Ucun’s sentences one by one. What does he mean? Devlet Bahceli said, “Either you accept or you will be punched.” Accept what? “You will give up your Kurdishness. You will give up the Kurdish cause. You will not talk about Kurdishness, freedom, or democracy. Be a politician, be an MP, be a mayor, but don’t deal with such things. Don’t talk about the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom and democracy.” If you do follow their lead, you are allowed to be a mayor or an MP. You can do politics. This is what is being said.

Freedom and democracy mean fighting against this state, against this government. It means taking a stance against the policies of this government.

To look for something in this is only to reveal their desire. I wish something good would happen. Yes, everyone wants something good to happen. The Kurdish people want steps to be taken; they want the situation to be solved. No one wants this more than us. Probably no one wants it more than us. It is not even understandable to make sense of Devlet Bahceli’s call. Yes, he shook hands with the MP’s. He spoke about peace outside and peace inside. Then Devlet Bahceli called Rêber Apo to the parliament. What did he say? Come and disband your organization. What do you mean, disband his organization? The political will of a people, the power of thought. For 50 years, it has been struggling for this. It has tens of thousands of martyrs. He says come and disband it. Surrender. That’s what it means. Only this, yes.

Devlet Bahceli took Rêber Apo as an interlocutor. It is understood; everyone understands that the addressee of this issue is Rêber Apo. That is why he is calling there. If they want to solve the Kurdish question, Rêber Apo is ready to do it. It has become clear once again that Rêber Apo is the interlocutor. On the other hand, Bahceli also said that there is isolation. So they also admitted that there is isolation.

Another point that needs to be made clear. There is a rumor going around that Rêber Apo spoke to Qendil on the phone. This is made up and does not correspond to reality. So far, there has been no contact of this kind. There is no such thing. We follow the developments on TV like everyone else. We follow it in the press. There was no contact, and there is no process. They can always meet with Rêber Apo. The Turkish intelligence service can always go and meet with Rêber Apo. There have been many meetings with him in the past in Imrali. But we understand from what Omer Ocalan told us, and also from Tuncer Bakirhan’s statements later on, that Rêber Apo also pointed out that currently there are no talks, there is no solution process. The meeting that took place should not be interpreted in a different way. The meeting was the result of years of struggle.

This period needs to be approached carefully and correctly. There are many traps and games. The AKP-MHP government is a special war government. Every day they make up new games, trying to deceive the people. Erdogan is a demagogue. So is Devlet Bahceli. Fascism means demagoguery. It means distorting the facts. The MHP’s discourse on this issue has been known for a long time. They say that Kurds are their brothers and speak about the Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood. Turkish and Kurdish people are brothers. It is the state policy that pits the Turkish and Kurdish people against each other; it is this government. It is the policies of this government. Now these demagogues are talking about brotherhood. All these speeches and discussions need to be addressed properly. No one should have any hope that anything will come of them.

Of course, a solution is desirable. The people want it, we want it, the democratic political movement wants it, and our international friends want it. The people of Turkey also want it. Because this problem needs to be solved in order for Turkey to get out of crises and problems. But there is no intention or desire for such a solution on the side of the state. On the contrary, the policy that has been in place for years is wanted to be deepened even further.

Particularly the members of the DEM Party and the public need to be aware of what kind of game is being played on them. They must stand firm and struggle against this policy. There is no other way but to fight against this policy. We will not surrender, since we will not give up our Kurdish identity, since we will not give up the cause of freedom and democracy of the peoples, of the Kurdish people. Their policy needs to be well understood and accordingly struggled against.

What is also important to see in this context is the appointment of trustees for several municipalities in northern Kurdistan. This is something that has been high on the agenda in recent days and is leading to widespread popular resistance. But this didn’t just start a few days ago. Can you put this into context, also in view of the mentality and policy behind it?

The basis of the trustee policy has been prepared since the beginning. In fact, they wanted to impose it directly after the municipal elections in northern Kurdistan. In Wan (tr. Van), it was prevented and was limited in Colemerg (tr. Hakkari). The trustees are both part of this policy and the result of the policy that has been carried out until now. They want to crush the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. Nowhere do they want Kurds to govern cities and towns. They do not want a Kurdish will to emerge, even if it is limited. That is why there is such a trustee policy.

They cannot accept that Kurds go to vote, that they elect their representatives, and that they govern themselves. They say that as long as they do not give up their Kurdish identity and their quest for freedom, they do not have the right to govern. They say that the Kurds could never lead a municipality in any world with their culture and language. That they would not allow this. That is why they are carrying out this trustee policy to crush the Kurdish people’s struggle for democracy and freedom. When Kurds elect their representatives, the states take them and appoint trustees instead. They insist so persistently on this policy to dissuade the Kurdish people from their path. They should abandon their thoughts and policies. They have done this so many times and called on the Kurds to give up. They want to break the will of the Kurdish people and make them give up themselves. They constantly threaten that if their policies are not accepted, if a policy not in line with the AKP-MHP government will be followed, trustees will be appointed. On the one hand, they are trying to create a perception that this process will finally lead to a Kurdish opening. And on the other hand, they are saying, “If you don’t surrender, you will be crushed; we will appoint trustees if you don’t adopt our policies.”.

They chose Merdin (tr. Madin) for this reason. They wanted to take Merdin from the DEM party because it is the area from where they want to march to Rojava. Even Devlet Bahceli was careful not to say anything negative when talking about Ahmet Turk. Again, 15 days ago, they reconciled the Senyashars. Ahmet Turk and Erdogan’s deputy did it together. They chose this place because of the occupation of Rojava. Xelfeti (tr. Halfeti) is a message to Rêber Apo. It is to put pressure on him. And Elih (tr. Batman), of course, is very important in the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom, particularly the women’s struggle. Elih had a woman co-mayor with a high count of votes. They cannot digest it; they want to suppress it too. This is an attack against the women’s freedom struggle.

They will continue this. If the struggle does not develop, they will continue. Just the other day, Abdulkadir Selvi said that it will continue and that more trustees are going to be appointed. They will try to usurp Amed (tr. Diyarbakir), Bazid (tr. Doubeyazit), and Wan again too. All Kurdish people need to resist. They should show an attitude and reaction as if trustees have been appointed to all municipalities. Because the trustee policy is not a policy for one city. It is a Kurdish policy. It is a policy of crushing the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. All Kurds need to fight against this trustee policy in every city. They should not wait for their turn. If the trusteeship in Wan is to be stopped, if the trusteeship in Amed is to be stopped, then they need to step up their struggle now. Of course, the struggle must be waged together with the democratic forces of Turkey. We need to call out to them. We have seen the effect of this relationship, this joint struggle in Wan. It is necessary to ensure this while fighting in Kurdistan, and the democratic forces and civil society organizations in Turkey need to take a stand against the trusteeship. Kurds have significant power in Istanbul; they have significant power in Izmir, Adana, and Antalya. Here, CHP municipalities have won as a result of Kurdish votes. The democratic forces there can easily be mobilized, and they need to be mobilized. Only in this way can the trustees be repelled.

There is a certain struggle at the moment. But it needs to be stepped up even more. It needs to be continued. They estimate that the people will march for a few days, protest for a few days, and then stop. This should not be the case. The Kurdish people must prepare for a continuous struggle. They should not leave any municipality. Municipalities are not places. The Merdin co-chairs and council members should continue their work. They should discuss with the people and decide where and how things should be done. On this basis, the trustee should be exposed. In this way, the trustee should not be allowed to work; they should be paralyzed. The co-chairs and council presidents should not leave their posts. They should work actively. They should not go and sit at home. They should have such an approach until they kick out the trustees. All democratic organizations should be sensitive about this. They should not accept it. They must show that they do not accept it. So much so that even those who voted for the AKP should be drawn into this struggle. Why do they still vote for the AKP? You can say, “You are Kurdish and still vote for AKP?! This is unacceptable.”

The trustee policy should not be understood as an isolated attack in a single city; as an attack on the DEM Party, it’s a total genocidal attack. This attack is taking place because the Kurdish people demand for their identity, freedom, and democracy, something they cannot accept. The attack is directed against this. If there were other Kurds, not DEM Party members, they would have attacked them too. If one insisted on his/her Kurdishness, identity, culture, and language, if he/she serves as a local administrator on this basis, they would have appointed a trustee for him/her too, no matter the political party. In this respect, it is necessary to include other circles other than the Kurds who vote for the DEM Party and to draw them into the struggle.

While evaluating this, we need to draw attention to another issue. So many trustees are being appointed, and there is a great resistance against it by the people. Some circles make evaluations saying that while these trustees are being appointed, the solution process can still continue. This is an evaluation that legitimizes and normalizes the trustees. How do they imagine that? That on the one hand the Kurdish question is being resolved, while on the other the Kurdish political will is being denied by trustees being appointed? This is not a war between two sides who continue to fight during negotiations. The will of the people is being usurped in the area where the most democracy could be practiced. Those who make such statements should be given the necessary answer.

Now it is also being said that there have been solution processes during conflicts in the world. To legitimize what is going by saying this is ignorance. It is a blunder to say that the circumstances surrounding the Kurdish question are the same circumstances surrounding the Basque question, and are the same circumstances surrounding the Irish question. It is not the case that the Kurdish question is not being resolved because there are too many political claims. Because the Kurdish existence is denied, the problem is not solved, and because the intention is to eradicate the Kurdish language, culture, and identity, the issue is not solved. If this were not the case, if a policy of genocide was not being implemented on the Kurds, if this were not the policy, the mentioned solution processes could have been implemented in Kurdistan. But this is not the reality in Kurdistan.

The Kurdish question is a hundred-year-old question. Of course there was a Kurdish question before, but it really started with the 24th Constitution. Kurdistan was wanted to be turned into an expansion area for Turkish nationalization. The policy was to Turkify Kurdistan, and this continues till today. Now, what is their approach to the Kurdish question? It is to make Kurds forget their identity, language, and culture. For them, this is the Kurdish question. It is not accepting self-governance. Before the Republic, Kurds governed themselves. There was no constant intervention from outside. There was Ottoman sovereignty, but they didn’t try to penetrate everything, to intervene in their lives, to intervene in their religion, to intervene in their culture. This happened in a planned way after 1924. They want to destroy the language and culture. What does it mean to destroy a culture and language? It means destroying an identity, committing genocide. Now Kurds cannot even govern municipalities, let alone work. There is a European charter on local self-determination, but they didn’t even sign it. Why? Because the Kurds would govern their own areas at a certain level. They did not accept even that. Now regarding the Kurdish language. Is there any education? Is Kurdish taught in school? Are there any opportunities to teach Kurdish? No. Not only that, Kurdish speaking Kurdish even at home has been kind of banned and suppressed. It is said that when children speak Kurdish at school, they are punished. Now Kurds are gradually forgetting Kurdish. They have forgotten it west of the Euphrates. They forget it in Dersim (tr. Tunceli). Now in many places, the new generation is forgetting its mother tongue. Because there is pressure. People have been beaten and killed for speaking Kurdish. This is oppression. The people cannot speak freely and comfortably.

On the other hand, what has Bulent Arinc said regarding language? Why do they make people forget their language? What does is the Kurdish problem? The Kurdish problem is not to forget their own language. Isn’t it being forgotten right now? Isn’t it already disappearing? This is happening with his policy. It’s happening with genocidal, colonialist policy. The Kurdish language is being forgotten. Isn’t there pressure on culture? They established so many things to support Turkish culture, give all kinds of support through the Ministry of Culture, but ban Kurdish culture. They are destroying a language, destroying a culture. This is the destruction of an identity; it is a genocide. This is the Kurdish problem. They don’t even allow a Kurdish municipality to govern itself. This is the Kurdish problem. What do the Kurds want? Kurds want their language not to disappear and to protect their culture and identity. They want these policies of language, culture, and genocide to be abolished.

Now the government speaks about equal citizenship. Kurds can be everything. They say Kurds can become district governors and governors. Even if only in exceptional cases, this does happen. The condition for this is that they discard their own Kurdish identity and language.

Alevis also want equal citizenship. They say there is not a single governor from them. There is not one district governor. Alevis form such a big part of the population, but they are not even hired as civil servants. How are they equal citizens? Kurds are not equal citizens. For a Kurd to be an equal citizen, he/she has to take their identity, culture, and language. If you are a Turk, then they see you as an equal citizen. One is an equal citizen if he/she accepts Turkishness, if he/she gives up his/her language, culture, and identity, and does not struggle for it. But if he/she fights for it, he/she will face the harshest repression. The courts are used as an instrument of repression against them. In this respect, it is clear what the Kurdish problem is.

Let Turkish be the official language. What will be done to ensure that Kurdish is not forgotten? How will this Kurdish language live? Isn’t their policy right now the policy of destroying the Kurdish language? They say Kurds can speak their language at home and on the street. But they use all conceivable forms of repression in all dimensions. They are trying to take the Kurd for a fool. The state opens so many schools to implement its own language and promotes its own culture. But when it comes to Kurds, they can’t even use the word. They say the word Turk includes Kurds. Turk is not an ethnic identity. You can’t fool anyone with that. In the past, for example, there was still talk of the Turkish Huns or the Turkish Uyghurs. Now there is no longer any talk of that either; they only know Turks.

Turkish identity has been made so rigid that it wants to genocide the Kurds. It is not inclusive. It is an identity of genocide. Let me state it again. I mean this for all Kurds, so that they really understand the policy of the Turkish state correctly. They should not deceive themselves. The Turkish state wants to turn Kurdistan into an expansion area for Turkish nationhood. It has not given up on this aim. It wants to Turkify it. Either it will Turkify it culturally, or it wants to change the demography and make it no longer a Kurdish geography. Therefore, if they do not want to give up their Kurdishness, if they do not want to give up their identity, language, and culture, they will resist. The ‘Eastern Reform Plan’ continues to be implemented. The outcome is clear.

The majority of people west of the Euphrates were Kurds. Now there are no Kurds left in Meresh (tr. Kahramanmarash), Meleti (tr. Malatya), and Sewas (tr. Sivas). And those who remain cannot speak Kurdish. This is the Kurdish problem. It is not just a problem; there is a policy of genocide. There is no such thing as equal citizenship. Kurds are not being treated equally. In fact, in this Turkish state, inequality is a constitutional rule.

In this context in particular, I would like to talk about the action that took place a few weeks ago against the TAI, the military center in Ankara. What can you tell us about it?

I commemorate those who carried out the action against the TAI in Ankara respectfully and gratefully. They revealed what Kurdish identity, culture, and conviction are. They have shown the essence of Kurdishness, of Kurdish feelings and awareness, and the Kurdish stance in the fight against the genocide against the Kurds.

They have shown a stance against the genocide of the Kurds. They made a sacrifice against this comprehensive pressure. They internalized this because they were aware that the Kurds were being exterminated, because they were aware that the Kurdish existence was under threat. That is why they decided to stand up for the protection of existence, freedom and democracy. This is how this action is to be understood. This is the message that must be read from this attitude from this action.

Why such sacrifice? Why such a sacrifice of one’s own young life? These are questions that every Kurd has to answer for himself. As I said, there is currently no process. I repeat it again; there are some who complain that this action took place during these discussions, but the action has no connection to the current discussions. The action was the result of long-term work. It is not something that is prepared and carried out within one or two days, one or two months. It is the result of months of preparation.

On the other hand, the war continues. If there was a process, if there was no war like in 2009, 2010, then it would be different. But the enemy carries out any kind of attack with the intention of annihilation. The action is the response to that. It is the response to the genocidal attack. It has nothing to do with what Devlet Bahceli said on October 1 and the discussions that followed. It is an action against the genocidal policy against the Kurds, against the policy from which this Turkish state emerged. Now the war continues, and this was an action against a center that produces weapons that are used against the Kurdish people. UCAV’s like the Aksungur are produced there. What are they used for? They are used to murder civilians everywhere. In Rojava, South Kurdistan, and everywhere else, they are used to murder civilians, reporters, intellectuals, politicians, etc. TAI is a center of war. There is currently a war between the Turkish state and the freedom movement. So the target is legitimate. It is a war factory that produces weapons and is therefore a legitimate target. The people who work there are soldiers. What they produce are weapons.

Therefore, it was an important action. It shook them. Because they kept saying that they knew everything and would be in control of everything. They were saying we know how they breathe and even what number of shoes they are wearing. The action was the biggest answer to that. There is no obstacle that a sacrificial guerrilla cannot overcome. The guerrilla always carries out actions. There are hundreds of thousands of such youngcomrades. It is the Turkish state policy that has made these young people like this. It is their policy of genocide. Of course, young people, militants who feel great hate towards this genocide policy, emerge. They have emerged before, and they will also emerge in the future.

Asya Ali’s biggest anger was that she could not properly speak her own language. She said, “Teach my nephews their language, teach them their culture.” She was aware of the ongoing attack on these values growing up in Izmir. I wonder how many Kurdish youth in Izmir know their own language. There is a genocide.

A member of the ‘Battalion of the Immortals’ once said, “There is only Shirnex (tr. Shirnak) and Colemerg left. If it continues like this after 20 years, even they will forget their language and culture, and then the Kurdish question will be over.” That is their policy. In this face, what are the Kurdish youths and those sacrificial people expected to do? Of course they will find an answer to this policy. They have written beautiful letters. They are really impressing. It is obvious that they really managed to put their feelings on paper. In fact, those messages should be the feelings of all Kurdish youth, the message of all Kurdish youth. They should feel the same way. They should try to reach that level. Everyone should try to reach that level.

Yes, they gave impressive messages. A message to their families, a message to the Kurdish people. At the same time, they called for the popular resistance should be put forward against the trustees. They called on their families, their comrades; on everyone. This call expresses also, that this genocidal colonialism cannot be fought against with an ordinary struggle, with an ordinary patriotism. The Kurds cannot get rid of genocide like this. They gave this message clearly and revealed to everyone the necessary level of struggle against this Turkish state, against this genocidal colonialism. Everyone should measure themselves against the standard they have set through their attitude. We should all ask ourselves where we stand. We are in their debt. When they went into martyrdom, they said that they were still in our debt, but we are the ones who are really in their debt.

We are currently approaching an anniversary, namely November 25. The international day against violence against women. What do you have to say in this context, especially to men?

The women’s issue is, of course, an important cause. Violence against women is a phenomenon thousands of years old. Violence against women is a historical phenomenon, and one can say that it is one of the oldest problems of society. In fact, it is the source of all other problems. The source of social problems is the domination over women. And what is dominance built on? It is achieved through violence, through many forms of violence against women. Rêber Apo speaks of the woman as the first colony. She was treated like the first colonized nation. And has since then been oppressed for thousands of years.

In this respect, this problem is more than just the fact that so and so many men have oppressed women and so and so many men have killed women. It is a social problem that concerns the whole society. It is a problem that needs to be solved. Without the elimination of violence against women, without the elimination of the policy of violence against women, in other words, without women being free, society cannot be at peace. Society cannot be healthy. Where there is violence against women, society is sick and unhealthy. It is a great humanitarian problem to inflict violence on the mother, the one who gives birth and raises the child. A woman is part of society, half of it, and violence is particularly practiced on her. Of course this must be opposed. One cannot be a democrat, a human being, a moral person, or a conscientious person without taking a stand against this.

Violence against women is a social problem. There is this approach among men. It is an approach that feeds on male dominance and is related to morality and conscience. Men have that tendency. It has been implemented in their genes for thousands of years. It has become a culture of belittling women and practicing violence against women. Every man must know that this culture has infected him, and he must get rid of this evil, this ugliness. This is a very important issue.

Rêber Apo has paved the way for the women’s freedom struggle, and there have been important developments in Kurdistan. But still in Kurdish society, men’s understanding of violence against women continues. He has not been able to get rid of all that dirt and rust. If Kurdish youth and Kurdish men say that they are loyal to Rêber Apo, if they talk about the freedom of the Kurdish people and democracy, they should definitely change their approach towards women. Men, patriots need to get rid of this tendency to violence against women. Otherwise, their patriotism is incomplete. One cannot be a true patriot, democrat, or freedom seeker; one cannot be conscientious or moral if he doesn’t work on getting rid of this.

The issue of violence against women is important. And when I say violence, I mean it in any aspect. Even raising one’s voice against a woman is violence. Generally, men raise their voices to women when something happens. This is a tendency of masculinity, a tendency of dominance. But there are so many more forms of violence, restriction in social life, not seeing women as equal, exclusion, etc.

On the occasion of the approaching November 25th, I commemorate the Mirabal sisters with gratitude and respect. November 25th has become a day of struggle against violence, and it is having a great impact. It has spread to the world. On this occasion, I condemn all violence against women, and I call on all patriots and democrats to fight against violence against women. All patriots in Kurdistan must avoid violence when approaching their wives, children, daughters, and sisters. This is true patriotism.

Another anniversary is also slowly approaching, the founding day of the PKK, on November 27. For decades it has been said that the PKK is on the verge of being crushed, but again and again it continues to develop and emerge stronger as before. What can you tell us about this, or about the approaching anniversary in general?

The founder of the PKK is Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo founded, developed, and brought the PKK to the present day on the basis of an ideology that has continuously developed and sustained itself from the first to the present day, that is, on the basis of an ideology that integrates itself with the society, integrates itself with the people, integrates the struggle, in other words, ensures that the society embraces the people. It has been 46 years now, and there has even been more before that. For more than 50 years, a struggle has been going on. This has created a culture. The PKK is no longer just an organization or a political party. Today the PKK is a social culture, a social mentality, a part of society. In other words, society has also become the PKK. That’s why society constantly chanted slogans like “PKK is the people, the people are here.” This is the reality. It is no longer possible to separate the PKK from the Kurdish people. It is not possible to separate it from Kurdish history. It is not possible to separate it from Kurdish culture. The PKK’s survival at this level, its strong existence despite all the attacks, is the result of this. The PKK is a power beyond its current concrete strength. If the attacks against the PKK fail to achieve results, it is because the PKK is a bigger force than it appears. It is a movement deeply rooted in society.

The PKK has always gotten stronger, is getting stronger, and will get stronger. The PKK is the organized form of Rêber Apo’s thought. Rêber Apo’s thought is a thought that will no longer determine the present but the future. The PKK, which is its organized form, will continue its influence in the future. It has militants like Asya Ali and Rojger Helin. There are the values they have created. There is the prison resistance; there is the women’s movement. As Rêber Apo said, the PKK is a women’s party. It is a party shaped on values that we cannot list here. It is delusional to think that the PKK can be destroyed through these and those attacks. That is why the reality of the PKK is a reality that needs to be further researched and analyzed.

The PKK has become a reality beyond us. This needs to be seen. If the PKK were just material assets, concrete realities, the PKK would not be able to survive under so many attacks. The PKK has a spirit that keeps it alive. That power, which is beyond its concrete existence, beyond its material existence, sustains the PKK. It keeps us constantly struggling, and by struggling, we constantly yield results. This cannot be prevented by any attack. On this basis, I salute Rêber Apo once again with gratitude and respect for creating such a party. I also remember with gratitude and respect all our martyrs who have brought the PKK to this day. The PKK will struggle by adhering to their memory and will realize their aspirations.

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