our interviews

More than a month and a half has passed since the statement by peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan, which was read out on 27 February. Great hopes had been raised, especially regarding the change of the living and working conditions of Ocalan. What is the current status in this regard?

First of all, I respectfully salute the historic Imrali resistance and its conductor, Rêber Apo¹. The isolation in Imrali continues. There is no information about any serious change reflected to us. A period of one and a half months has passed since Rêber Apo made a historic call that was widely appreciated, and accordingly it was expected that there would be practical developments and changes. However, this is not the case. The Imrali system of torture, isolation, and genocide continues.

Free living and working conditions for Rêber Apo have not been ensured. However, it was stated that he would regain those within a week. There has been no change. So far, there is no serious approach that has been reflected and observed in this regard. Since the call does not find its response in practice, this led to a serious discussion and crisis. We, as leadership of the party, expressed our position in this process quite clearly. We pointed out that like this there will be no outcome, and we assume that this is also Rêber Apo’s attitude. The rumors that Rêber Apo did not have the intention to make any statements on Newroz do not correspond to the facts.

As we read the situation, Rêber Apo is taking a clear stance to emphasize the cruciality of the current situation, and the situation on Imrali is a crisis. It is claimed that this crisis has been overcome with recent statements and talks, but whether this really is the case or not, we don’t have concrete information on that. But what they intended to do was to reflect a positive atmosphere to the public.

The content of Rêber Apo’s call should, of course, be discussed, and everyone can express their own views on the Imrali system, on the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, and on the solution of the Kurdish question. But one should not spread rumors and claim that Rêber Apo said this or acted like that. One must not speak on behalf of Rêber Apo. Everyone needs to be careful in this regard in order not to create wrong perceptions. There are people that want to manipulate and play with minds. That is why it is necessary to be careful and sensitive.

Rêber Apo did more than his part and thereby surprised everyone. There were headlines stating, “He did the unexpected”. Rêber Apo made a confident and pioneering statement pointing towards a solution in such a way that it surpassed everyone’s expectations. This was, of course, very meaningful and important. However, one should not expect that Rêber Apo will solve the whole problem alone, that everything is solved with Rêber Apo’s statement. Rêber Apo did not create this problem. There is the Kurdish question behind it. It was created by the international capitalist modernity system and the state structure of the Republic of Turkey. They created it by denying the existence and identity of the Kurds, launching extermination attacks, and practicing genocidal attacks against the Kurds. The Kurdish question was created on the basis of enmity, on the basis of a mentality and politics of destruction and ignorance. This is the essence of the problem. And they based the Kurdish question on violence. Those who rely on violence, those who have conducted massacres and genocide against the Kurds over the past one, two hundred years, have to give up on this. Those who deny the existence and identity of the Kurds, who do not recognize even their most basic rights, and who want to annihilate them have to give up on this. Rêber Apo and the PKK have revealed the reality that they are living and put it in front of everyone.

As Rêber Apo pointed out, he has not created this problem. It is the work of others. He found it in front of him, while everyone else also saw it but ignored it. And Rêber Apo didn’t act like everybody else. He named it and started to work on its solution. He fulfills the duties and responsibilities that fall on his shoulders in this regard, but he alone cannot bring peace to Turkey. War and peace involve two sides. There cannot be a solution only by one side. Rêber Apo has been making a relentless effort for peace for more than 30 years, but nothing can be solved alone. Freedom, democracy, and democratization cannot be achieved by the efforts of one person alone. Everyone needs to participate in this. Everyone has a duty and responsibility in this. Therefore, no one should have the expectation that Rêber Apo can and will do it all by himself.

Especially Kurdish society, and among it particularly the youth and the women, needs to be sensitive to this reality. They need to be well aware of which responsibility falls on whose shoulders, what the way for a solution can be, what kind of duties emerge during this process, and what kind of struggle is necessary. The current situation demands that the global freedom campaign aiming at the physical freedom of Rêber Apo be developed and sustained in a multifaceted and effective manner. In this context, a conference was held in Rome. It was important, and the recent developments were evaluated. What will be done next is, as far as we can observe, still being discussed. I salute all those who carried out that effort, but I also want to highlight that it is necessary to further enlarge, spread, and strengthen the global freedom campaign on every dimension, in all four parts of Kurdistan, and in all corners of the world.

In his call, peoples leader Ocalan also points out the necessity of the convening of a congress. This is something that is being widely discussed. What can you, as one of the people directly responsible for this, say about this?

Rêber Apo’s statement from February 27 titled ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ was a historic call, and its content carried a deep meaning. Therefore it was very meaningful, effective, and had a positive impact on everyone. There were some who opposed it, and even those who made harsh accusations for the call being published, but in general it had a positive impact on everyone. It was a call that not everyone could make, a call that not everyone could afford, a step that not everyone could take. But Rêber Apo took this step. It imposed duty and responsibility on everyone. The call was addressed not to one specific person or organization, but to everyone living in this world. No one can say that the call does not concern him. Even the most oppressed in the remotest corner of the world was addressed to the call because of being so. An unprecedented system of oppression and exploitation was created on the basis of the mentality and politics of destruction and ignorance of the Kurds, and it spread from there. Therefore, the Kurdish Freedom Struggle includes all of them. In this respect, one can say that maybe not on the same level, but at the end everyone is the addressee of the call.

We as a movement make our position known at the appropriate time, and so on March 1st we issued a statement to define our position, and to follow this up with practical steps, we declared a ceasefire. Most importantly, we openly defined our position. We said that this call can be implemented if the appropriate conditions are created. And we stated that we fully agree with its content and that we will comply and implement it. For the appropriate conditions, we defined the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, the conditions for him to live and work freely, because only Rêber Apo can organize the necessary congress. Only Rêber Apo can make the decisions to be taken at the congress, and only Rêber Apo can implement them. Apart from this, neither any force, person, nor institution within or outside of our movement can do so. Our party leadership and all other current mechanisms within our movement are based on the administration of the war. It can only wage war. They say, “The Congress must dissolve the PKK.” The world united to destroy the PKK; they used all kinds of weapons and resorted to all kinds of ways and methods. They have never followed any rules of morality and law. They have been uninterruptedly attacking for forty years and could not get any results. For the last ten years they have been attacking on the basis of their so-called “collapse action plan” without success. They could not destroy or annihilate the PKK, and they could not continue Kurdish denial. No one but Rêber Apo can make them take those decisions and implement them. Now we stand on this view and explanation. A very long time has passed, and it was a difficult time. We had made various evaluations, but still, due to the importance, content, and difficulties of the problem, we continued this process in the sense of not rushing and giving practice a little more chance. Our statements are still valid today. On this issue, we have not yet received anything concrete from Rêber Apo in the direction of holding a congress and having a decision taken.

Rêber Apo has stressed his determination. We have seen this, have attached importance to it, and find this determination meaningful and valuable. We are not against its realization; on the contrary, we are in favor of it. But it is obvious that a situation to realize it has not emerged in Imrali. More than forty-five days have passed, more than a month and a half, since the declaration, and still the isolation continues. There has been no new development, no change in the conditions under which Rêber Apo lives and works. The Imrali system continues; it has not been abolished, and not a single step in that direction has been taken. Rêber Apo cannot meet with anyone; he is not in a position to do any work regarding the congress. Once he gets in a position to realize this, he will advance the process.

Rêber Apo has made a decision and said that he is ready and willing to play his role. If the circles in power and the state really want it to be done, then there is the power to do it. When they pave the way, give him the opportunity; he implements his decision – he already fulfills his promise – the problem will be solved. If what they really want is to solve the problem, then this can be done in this way. While there is the continuation of the Imrali system, the maintaining of the isolation, and the hostage system, the requirements defined in Rêber Apo’s declaration can not be implemented. They cannot be practiced. Now it is being said that there are positive developments, that practical steps are being taken, and the Imrali delegation said that there will be changes in the conditions in Imrali, legal work will be done, the so-called ‘Right to Hope’ will become functional, there will be legal guarantees given, and so on. We don’t know what exactly is behind it and what is being discussed. But if it really happens like this, if Rêber Apo is enabled to run the congress, then it can work; then there will be no problem. There are no obstructive problems on our side; on the contrary, there are always facilitative approaches.

The rest is up to the power and state forces. It is up to those who created this problem, those who created the Imrali system, and those who maintain the most severe hostage system known to humanity. They babbled something about there being no legal legislation; however, there are European laws. Applying European laws is binding for Turkish law. They could have implemented it. They could have made legal arrangements within three days if they wanted to. It was not something that could not be done, but they have not done it until now; they have stalled and delayed. If they block the process and they are responsible for it, it causes.

The Imrali delegation recently held a meeting with the President of Turkey. How do you see and assess the rapprochement of the state and the rulers in the current phase?

The meeting took place after a long time, almost two weeks. There was even a debate about whether it would happen or not because of the time that had passed. But finally there was a meeting. Of course, it is important and meaningful that the President of the Republic met with the DEM Party’s Imrali delegation. They also met with the Speaker of the Parliament, they met with the heads of other parties, and with further circles. But it is decisive to meet with the President of the Republic as the interlocutor of the government and the number one responsible for the state, and for the President of the Republic to be involved in this matter at that level. Therefore, we see it as meaningful. And the statements given afterwards were very positive. It impressed everyone. But as we have expressed before, there are many wishes, many words, but no practice. No practical steps are taken. Now there are very positive, pleasing words and statements, but the question is what the practical outcome will be. We really don’t have any information about the content of the talks. We don’t know if something has been decided, or if wishes have been expressed, or how the results will be put into practice. We hope that it will be positive, that it will advance the process.

More can be said when a practice develops. Mere words will not be enough. We cannot say anything based on words. In this respect, both the talks and the statements are important. We hope that practice of it will follow.

The public, especially the Kurdish and the democratic public, first and foremost the women and the youth, must be aware that so far everything is just at the level of words and wishes. There should be no wrong perception. All this might be a concept of special warfare being in play. Caution is necessary, and evaluations from as many angles as possible are needed for it to be evaluated correctly, since there is enough reason to have doubts and to be concerned.

The war and the attacks of the Turkish state continue uninterruptedly. On behalf of our Central Headquarters Command, the HPG Press Office announces the statistics of the daily attacks against the guerrillas. We gave five martyrs in Zap and two martyrs in Gare. There are about 500-1000 bombardments every day. Prohibited weapons are being used. And airplanes continue to hover over the area.

I want to take this opportunity to salute the resistance of our guerrillas once again. I commemorate with respect, love, and gratitude the martyrs we gave in the face of these attacks. It is important and meaningful to be able to stand firm under these conditions, to use the right to legitimate defense against these attacks. No one can say anything different to this. But how will it be if it is being said that armed struggle must stop and arms must be laid down while they still uninterruptedly launch military attacks? How credible can that demand for laying down arms be? This is, to say the least, debatable. Why are these attacks still going on? It doesn’t look like a peaceful situation at all. I wonder what a force that attacks while there is a ceasefire will do to those armed people if they lay down their arms tomorrow. We are not ignorant. They should try to deceive us.

The current government is carrying out similar attacks not only on the military front but also on society and politics. Democratic individuals are constantly being arrested, and democratic institutions are being shut down. The prisons are filled to the brim. The government is attacking the opposition. There is massive pressure and attacks on the CHP, as well as on all the other parties. As comrade Karasu said, “Can we talk about an approach, mentality, and politics that cannot tolerate the opposition being democratic? Can such a mentality and politics democratize the state and society? Can it realize the democratic solution of problems?” This is not possible. If it cannot be democratic itself, then it cannot build democracy. It cannot create a democratic solution to problems. The current AKP-MHP regime is abusing this process and the opportunities created by it to consolidate its power. It is abusing it in the most reckless way. It is using the judiciary as a weapon. Democracy cannot come to Turkey with this approach. A mentality that cannot democratize Turkey cannot solve the Kurdish question. It is not possible for those who cannot solve the Kurdish question to make changes in the Imrali system or to take part in the process envisioned by Rêber Apo.

And these are not the only things. There are also external factors. For example, they held a meeting with Iraq in their joint mechanism. The only agenda was “PKK terrorism” and “joint fight against the PKK”. And you were making a deal with the PKK? You wanted the PKK to hold a congress, to dissolve, and to lay down its arms? They hold meetings in Syria, Iraq, Iran, Europe, and all over the world and make agreements with everyone against the “PKK terror”. There is no change in mentality and policy. Anti-Kurdishness, Kurdish denial, and Kurdish enmity continue as the guiding mentality and politics of the current government. Not only do they try to prevent the Kurds from obtaining their most basic rights, but they also want to annihilate them. They carry out all kinds of attacks. The attacks on Rojava and the struggle in Syria are very clear. There is no recognition of the existence and democratic rights of any Kurd here.

In short, yes, there are talks, there are some political discourses, but there is not much change in terms of mentality and politics. At the beginning, Devlet Bahceli said, “Let Apo come; let him speak in parliament.” But it remained at the level of words. Where remains the practice? He talked about Kurdish-Turkish brotherhood, about historical continuations. But the current government is not going through a change of mentality and politics that recognizes the existence of the Kurdish people, their existence as a people, and their democratic rights. What can be done with a government that follows anti-Kurdish mentality and politics? There is a genocide and no process. In this respect, yes, we have paid attention; there are optimistic statements, and there are wishes. “We will take steps,” they say. They are playing on time; they are stalling while there are no practical steps. There is an unclear, ambiguous situation, and it continues.

You have already mentioned that the declaration by peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan is being widely discussed. Let’s be more specific about this. How do you see the discussions in this regard on the part of the opposition and the press?

In terms of the opposition, one should not be too hopeless or denialist. There are important discussions within some democratic and leftist-socialist circles, as well as within women’s and youth movements. They are discussing the situation and rights of Rêber Apo, as well as the fact that the Kurdish question is a one- or two-hundred-year-old problem and the Kurdish people’s existence and gaining their democratic rights after 27 years of torture and isolation in Imrali. These are important discussions, and they are appropriate. The solution can only come from here. Without such discussions, there will be no solution. But there are also some discussions… It really surprises people. Can one be so narrow, chauvinistic, and nationalist? Can one be so racist? Can one be so power-hungry and self-interested? Some debates have nothing to do with the reality of Turkey. They are buried in their own interests; they are suffocating Turkey’s future and deepening its problems in a narrow power struggle. They are the ones preventing the democratization of Turkey, preventing Kurdish freedom. They are so confused that it is not even clear what they want. The only thing that can be seen is that they are enemies of Rêber Apo; they are enemies of the PKK. Whenever they open their mouths, it is only enmity that is coming out. You cannot reach anything with such people. They need to be reminded of the reality of Turkey and the reality of the region. The state that they know is cracking down. It is in search of how to save its future. It has fallen into a dangerous situation, but they don’t know it. Actually, they don’t really care about the survival of the state or about the future of the country; their only concern is their own narrow interests. There is such an individualistic, self-interested, materialistic environment. This is a very bad situation. These people need to be opposed and isolated.

There are discussions in this direction in the ruling circle. In terms of the opposition, the AKP suppresses it with its own methods. It has gotten the CHP into something, manipulating it. It made up a lot of things, but the CHP could not overcome them. Other opposition parties have expressed positive wishes, but they are unable to take steps. They are not pioneers, they cannot present projects, and they cannot develop an independent policy. They could not make the parliament work. Rêber Apo was also pointing to the parliament. We also considered it important. The institution that has to produce solutions in the first place is the parliament. And it is these parties that run the parliament. Many parties have groups or deputies in the parliament. They are in a position to work in parliament. “We are preparing a project,” the CHP said at one point. “We will present it to parliament on democratization and the solution of the Kurdish question”, but again nothing followed. They only say that the government is unreliable, express their doubts, and criticize the government. Fine, so be it; but if they really want to fight against this power, they can do so if they present their own projects and solutions that will overcome it. Otherwise, they will not criticize the government; they will just strengthen it even more.

They haven’t really taken very effective steps in terms of running the parliament and developing projects and plans. We haven’t seen it yet. “It can’t be done,” they say. They reject even the positive rhetoric of the government. Like this, they won’t achieve anything. If you really want to oppose the oppression, exploitation, and antidemocratic attitudes of the government, then make democracy work, develop it, take steps towards democratization, and develop projects. Make parliament work towards democratization. But practices to this extent have not developed. They create a narrowing, a blockage. It does so in such a way that it obstructs the solution of very historical, very important, very urgent problems such as the solution of the Kurdish question or the democratization of Turkey, or it confines this solution to a narrow power struggle, thus making them no longer a “solution force”. Everyone should abandon their self-interested, narrow, power-oriented approach. The solution of a problem such as the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey cannot be used for narrow power calculations. It cannot be handled with narrow interests. This is how the government handles it, this is how the AKP handles it; they carry out attacks on this basis. Doing something similar cannot surpass it!

The opposition should develop an attitude that develops democracy and shouldn’t try to imitate the government. The opposition should be able to become a democratic opposition, and step by step, it should operate the parliament and produce solutions for the democratization of Turkey. This is our call. If they do so, they will be effective. They will be understood, they can condemn the wrongdoings of the government, and they can find a base in society. We believe that such problems can indeed be overcome with a democratic mentality, with a democratic unity and alliance, and with an approach and effort that involves almost everyone in some way. This is our call to everyone. If the opposition does this, it will succeed. It will not be successful otherwise.

There are crucial developments in the region that will have an impact on both the Kurds and Turkey as the region takes on a new design. What will be the role of the Kurds and Turkey in this new design?

This is a very broad and significant topic. The fact that the government is doing everything for its own benefit and that the opposition is unable to effectively put forward a mentality and politics that go beyond it actually expresses a situation that clogs Turkey and brings it face-to-face with dangers in such a critical period. This is what is dangerous. Everything is in plain sight. Look at the point of the Third World War. Trump came to power; he had been talking about trade wars, and so he started a war. He is pursuing something with China, he has a system of relations with Russia, he is negotiating with Iran, and he is in talks with everyone at different levels. Israel expanded in the course of its war after the attack on October 7, 2023, and Syria has become the main area of contention and conflict. That this situation has come to Syria is because it has reached Turkey’s borders. We had warned before, “It is Turkey’s turn.” Now, the situation in Cyprus is obvious. There is the restructuring of the Middle East around the new energy route that stretches from India to Greece and passes through the Eastern Mediterranean. The system created in the course of the First World War is now disintegrating. The nation state status quo is being overcome; the nation state system itself is being overcome. It has been defeated in the Arab world, there is some kind of struggle with Iran, and they are also holding talks. In this system, those who carry out these attacks are trying to find a solution in Iran as well. This is the system that Turkey is a part of. They want Turkey to accept a Middle East under Israeli hegemony, to surrender to it.

As we had pointed out in the past, there are only two ways for Turkey within this system: either to fight or to surrender. Apart from this, the third path, the path proposed by Rêber Apo, is the path of democratization of Turkey based on Kurdish freedom. This path unites Turkey and reveals its democratic power. This path will make Turkey a pioneer in the Middle East, a model country. It gathers the peoples of the Middle East and the Islamic world around it. Therefore, this would bring about a democratic solution that overcomes the state status quo and develops the alternative of democratic modernity.

Now, supposedly Rêber Apo has been approached and called upon. They wanted the solution to be led by Rêber Apo, but there is no serious, consistent mentality and political approach that meets all these requirements. It is based on narrow, practical political interests. It is like a kind of cheating. They think that they can be successful by developing relations according solely to themselves, not in the way envisioned by Rêber Apo. So they got stuck. They are holding talks on all sides. They are trying to see if they can take advantage of the opportunity and liquidate the PKK, or if not, threaten it or make a deal with Israel. We are aware of these developments and agreements.

There is no need to drag it out. As we said, the struggle has reached a fundamental point in the Middle East, particularly in Iran and Turkey, and in the center of this is Kurdistan, the Kurds. The struggle for the restructuring of the region has reached this point. This situation affects everyone. It affects the Kurds, it affects Turkey, Iran, and all the peoples living in it. The old order was not good for the Kurds. They were divided, fragmented, and genocided for over a hundred years. Now, at least this conflicted environment creates new exit possibilities and opportunities. There are dangers and threats of massacres. It is not that we do not see and understand these. But the way forward for the Kurds is more open. Because the genocidal mentality and system that ignores and wants to destroy the Kurds is being broken down and overcome. Even if it is not overcome democratically, this system is disintegrating. If they act wisely in unity, if Kurds struggle well, they can make an effective and positive exit.

If Turkey does not solve the Kurdish question and democratize itself, it will either fight against Israel, come into conflict with the forces behind it, or surrender to them altogether. It will become a second-class or third-class power in the region. There is no other way. This has been imposed. The fight over Syria is a fight for this. Israel is trying to convince the US to intervene, since there will be a clash if they don’t.

Those who govern Turkey, those who love Turkey, its politicians, intellectuals, women, and young people should see this reality. We really wonder why this is not seen. Can’t this society see where its future lies? Can’t it draw a rational conclusion regarding its future for itself? This is where one really laments. It is obvious how important the situation is, how dangerous it is. But there is no such development in society.

The current ruling circles have used all kinds of tricks in the past. It was always said that there had been many games in the Ottoman Empire, but now In the Turkish Republic, the games have doubled the Ottoman Empire. What are they doing against the peoples? What have they done against the Kurds? What did they say in 1918? What did they say in 1919? What did they do in 1920, 1922, and after 1924? What kind of brutal, genocidal attacks and massacres have they carried out on the Kurds? We remember these. We know what has happened in the past century.

There are those who are trying to say that the PKK has been forced, that it has been defeated, that it is taking these steps because it is in a difficult situation, and so on. They are wrong; there is no such thing. If the PKK dissolves itself today, if there is no democratic development, there will be organizations that fight harder than the PKK. Kurdish society has become conscious, organized, and seen how to fight. It will develop all kinds of democratic organizations. It will have difficulties, but not more difficulties than it is experiencing now. There are some saying, “The PKK does not exist anymore”, “The PKK has been defeated,” and “They will surrender”. So why are you still spinning your wheels, complaining about the PKK, trying to form alliances against the PKK? You open your mouth and spew obscenities against the PKK. Are you fighting against something that doesn’t exist, as if you were fighting windmills? You need to be serious; you need to be consistent. Those who think so are mistaken. It is not the PKK that got stuck in a deadlock. The Kurds have fought a great war, resisted, paid a high price, and faced countless difficulties, but they also have gained the power to overcome them. They have learned to fight and win in the face of even the harshest difficulties.

It is necessary to struggle actively, effectively, and united against these distracting approaches that drown the situation in narrow power conflicts, and therefore against approaches that disregard, hinder, sabotage, and provoke the solution based on Kurdish freedom and the democratization of Turkey. Otherwise, Turkey itself will face the greatest danger. I suggest that those who love Turkey should come to the point, see the reality, and protect their future.

In your opinion, given the current situation you describe, what should be the convergence of the socialist forces and the democratic forces of society?

What we have to say to the socialist forces and the democratic forces of society is important. Rêber Apo defined the process by the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. Peace means the reconciliation of two sides. It involves ending the conflicts and moving from the position of rejecting and wanting to destroy each other to the position of reconciling and wanting to get along. But what is essential for this is a democratic society to develop. Only it can develop this process and guarantee peace.

The forces striving for freedom and democracy, the forces of democratic society in general, must know what it takes to exist freely and to have their own free political will. Rêber Apo’s call was to everyone. It was addressed to the government, to the opposition, to all the political forces of the world, but mostly to the democratic forces of society in Kurdistan and Turkey. Women, youth, workers and laborers, intellectuals, and artists, and democratic and socialist forces, these are the forces that will pave the way for Kurdish freedom and the democratization of Turkey. These are the forces that will guarantee freedom and democracy. These forces are the interlocutors of the process, the main addressees of the call. They should stop criticizing others by saying things like, “What is the AKP doing?”, “What is the CHP doing?” or “Why aren’t they doing this or that?” Looking at others means expecting something from them. Do they expect something from the ruling forces, or do democratic society and socialist forces expect something from themselves? They should expect it from themselves. These socialist, democratic forces, ecologists, and women’s liberationist forces should understand this process better and embrace it more.

Kurdish society, particularly the women and the youth, should be much more careful and sensitive. And so should be the democratic circles. There is a fierce special warfare going on. They are creating a soft perception, trying to make the process look wrong. We need to be vigilant; we need to be careful. It is not as easy as it is stated. There is a fierce struggle, a very intense, complex situation. No one is going to give us anything for free. We need to be vigilant and win through struggle. We have entered a period in which more struggle, more multifaceted struggle, is needed in order to achieve big successes. It is possible to be successful, but for this we need to organize and struggle; we need to do it with our own willpower. It cannot be done by hanging on the tail of others; it cannot be done by waiting for others. Therefore, both the Kurdish society and all democratic forces in Turkey, antifascist, democratic, freedom-striving forces must come together and unite. The third path is the alternative of democratic society. In order to develop this, they must create unity among themselves. It is necessary to create its own thought, program, and organization, and on this basis emerge as an alternative power.

There are demonstrations, but they are limited. As Rêber Apo said, we need to go from person to person, house to house, village to village, and neighborhood to neighborhood. This is Rêber Apo’s call. His call and criticism to the youth was also on this basis. He told them that it is all about organization. This applies to all democratic forces. These activities are to pave the way and create the ground for a democratization. There is still disorganization, narrowness, and wrong expectations; there are expectations from the ruling circles. This is wrong. It is necessary to overcome this. I want to underline this in particular. No one will give anything to them for free, neither to the Kurds nor to the democratic forces of Turkey. On the contrary, they will try to suffocate them. Everyone will look after their own interests; they will regress more, oppress more, and exploit more if they get the opportunity. Nothing can be expected from them. Indeed, all democratic forces of Turkey, the Kurdish society, and all parts of the democratic society are the primary addressees of this call. They are responsible for fulfilling the requirements of this call. They must organize, organize, and again organize to form a strong power. They must organize on the basis of democratic action, they must struggle more, and they must assert their own will. On this basis, I call on these circles to try more intensely to understand the process correctly, to develop more voluntary, democratic unions and freedom and democracy blocs, and to be the creators and guarantors of the success of the process.

At the end of our conversation, I would like to ask one final question. A multi-part documentary on the history of the PKK has begun to be published, and it looks like it has been very well received. Is there anything you would like to add in this regard?

So far two parts of the documentary on the struggle of the PKK, its history, and the reality and truth of Rêber Apo have been published. It is attracting great attention and is an important and instructive work. It is also important for the process; it is not disconnected from it. Everyone is discussing Rêber Apo and the PKK. So the documentary has an important position, effort, and content in explaining and expressing what the PKK is and what the reality of Rêber Apo constitutes. Therefore, it is better to see and understand the truth in its own reality and to oppose or support it accordingly instead of saying positive or negative things based on rote, hearsay approaches.

It is an important, comprehensive, and historical work. It was stated that most of the documents of the PKK struggle will be published. This arouses a lot of interest. And so we found it meaningful for the process.

We congratulate and salute those who made the effort for this documentary. We express our belief that they will carry out similar works more successfully. I invite all our people, especially the youth, our international friends, and all those who are interested in the PKK to watch this documentary with interest as they try to understand the reality of the PKK and Rêber Apo on the basis of Rêber Apo’s analyses and prison writings.

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