our interviews

First of all, I would like to talk about the isolation of the Kurdish Peoples Leader, Abdullah Ocalan. While any communication with him is still being prevented, some impressive actions have recently been taken, and there are also further interesting developments. For example, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) responded to a letter from 69 Nobel laureates on the subject, the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe (CoE) will soon hold a meeting on the subject, over 1500 lawyers from more than 30 countries have requested a meeting with the Kurdish peoples leader, Abdullah Ocalan, at the Turkish Ministry of Justice, the youth have embarked on a long march for his physical freedom, Kurdish festivals are taking place, and another action is planned for October 13 in northern Kurdistan and Turkey. How do you evaluate the importance of all these developments?

The global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo¹, which was launched last year on October 10, is approaching the conclusion of its first year. The struggle so far has indeed been very significant and important in terms of embracing Rêber Apo and putting his freedom on the agenda not only in Kurdistan and Turkey but also in the whole world. This agenda, the reading of the books of Rêber Apo, and the embracement of Rêber Apo by so many philosophers and intellectuals have also played an important role in spreading the common knowledge about the true greatness and character of Rêber Apo to the world. The dissemination of his thought has also gained an important level in this passing year.

What could be seen within the last months is that the struggle is yielding results. For example, the lawyers met with the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT), and they met with the ECHR. Most recently, the mentioned letter was written by 69 Nobel laureates, intellectuals, and scientists, and their call had a serious impact on the ECHR and the CPT. Because the ones who wrote are world-renowned people, people who have served humanity, people who are the conscience of humanity. Their embrace of Rêber Apo raised the general support and solidarity with Rêber Apo even higher. In other words, the struggle and the effort are pushing both the CPT and the ECHR to make concrete steps. Increasingly, it is also challenging Turkey. In this respect, we appreciate and salute all these efforts.

As we enter the second year of the campaign under the name ‘Freedom for Abdullah Öcalan, a Political Solution to the Kurdish Question’, new actions are on their way. The campaign is spreading, and both in Turkey and globally it will be expanded. The second year will be very important in terms of ensuring the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. There just recently was a statement by 1500 lawyers, which is of great significance, and there will also be a meeting of the Council of Ministers of the CoE on the Right to Hope for Rêber Apo. These developments shouldn’t be underestimated. We are convinced that the demand of the campaign will be taken much more seriously. After all, there have already been positive decisions from the ECHR on this situation. However, these have always been simply ignored by Turkey. While the Turkish government has always been criticized and put under pressure in other similar situations, the institutions have always remained silent when it comes to Rêber Apo. This is a political approach. But this has now reached a limit. After all the struggle and pressure that has been built up, this limit has now been crossed, and they are forced to act. Like you said, there is the effort of the lawyers, the youth is marching, and there is the cultural festival that is going to take place; all of these are developing and will develop as part of the global freedom campaign. The main goal of this year’s cultural festival is to contribute to the campaign and lead it to a new peak. The will, desire, and demand of the Kurdish people will be expressed strongly at the festival. The genocide policies of the Turkish state, the attack on culture, language, and govend²; these are all reasons for a strong reaction through the festival. We think that the participation in this year’s festival will be very high in order to further raise and develop the struggle for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. Everyone should participate; all our international friends should join it as well. Even the intellectuals in Europe and the democratic forces of European society should participate in this festival. This will be both an expression of support for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and a response to the genocide policies of the Turkish state. These activities are of great importance.

Also, as you mentioned, there will be an important march in northern Kurdistan on October 13 and the actions of the metropolises of Turkey. The democratic forces and intellectuals in Turkey should be criticized and also more involved in the campaign. They should oppose the lawlessness in Imrali more strongly. They speak about justice, criticize that there is no just law, and oppose the AKP-MHP’s injustice and unlawful practices – these are good, but they should also oppose Imrali. Without opposing the unlawful practices in Imrali, without opposing these arbitrary practices, opposing anything else in Turkey does not have much of a value. We need to be consistent. If the Kurdish people are to live together with the peoples of Turkey, if the Kurdish people are to live in Turkey with their identity, culture, and the free people of Turkey, then they must embrace Rêber Apo, whom they call their will and leader. They must oppose this unlawfulness practiced on Rêber Apo; otherwise, this silence, this silence against the oppression of the Kurds, contradicts their intellectual democratic stance and principles. The Turkish and Kurdish people have been neighbors and lived side by side for nearly a thousand years. Without the Kurds, the success of 1071 would not have been possible. This is commonly known. Now, when there is such a people, a people who have lived side by side for close to a thousand years, is it acceptable to destroy, genocide, and deny this people? The intellectuals and democrats of Turkey should make efforts for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. The current situation must be overcome. It is necessary to further raise and develop the global campaign, both in Europe and in Turkey.

The mentioned march of the youth is also important, and we salute this effort to free Rêber Apo. In this respect, I believe that through greater effort and greater struggle, the coming year will bring the physical freedom of Rêber Apo closer.

HPG has recently announced the martyrdom of Orhan Cihat Bingol, Tekin Goyi, Nujiyan Amed and Rosida Merdin. In addition, two very valuable friends, comrades and colleagues, Gulistan Tara and Hero Bahadin, were murdered in an attack by the fascist Turkish state, which was made possible by the collaboration of the KDP. What would you like to say about these martyrdoms?

Almost all of these martyred friends are friends I knew personally. At the same time, this is also the first anniversary of the “Jin, Jiyan, Azadi” revolution, the women’s uprising. I commemorate both Jina Emini and those who were martyred in this resistance with respect and gratitude. Orhan Bingol was one of the first friends I got to know in the guerrilla. When I entered the guerrilla in 1994, one of my first commanders in 1995 was him. He has a great legacy of resistance and struggle. He went to northern Kurdistan many times, particularly to Erzirom (tr. Erzurum), Cewlig (tr. Bingol), and carried out great work there. He is a friend who has been in this struggle for more than 30 years. The lives of these friends are meaningful lives. They made it so. They contributed to the freedom of the Kurdish people and the freedom of humanity. I remember comrade Orhan with gratitude and respect.

Again, comrade Tekin Goyi and particularly Nujiyan Amed… She also made great contributions to the Kurdish people’s struggle for freedom. Our female comrades have contributed a lot to the women’s liberation struggle. If the women’s liberation struggle has developed in Kurdistan today, if the democratic revolution in Kurdistan has deepened, the women’s liberation struggle and our martyred women comrades have a very important contribution and value in this. Both Kurdish society and all Kurdish women should know this. These friends wrote a new history with their lives and created a new life. They created a new understanding of life. This is very important, very valuable. I also remember these women comrades with gratitude and respect.

Then there are our very valuable friends of the free press. Rosida Merdin had been in charge of the Azadiya Welat newspaper in northern Kurdistan. She worked there for years with her very fluent Kurdish. They wanted to send her to prison when she was Editor-in-Chief, so she immediately went to the mountains. There again, she worked in the press for years and made important contributions in this field. As soon as she arrived here, she always wanted to join the guerrilla, but she was given press work. Still, she always insisted on taking part in the guerrilla struggle, and finally her desire was accepted. She stayed in several areas of the guerrilla; lately she was in the Medya Defense Zones³, in the areas of Avashin, Zap, and Metina. She took part in the resistance that had been going on for years in these areas; she became a fighter and a commander of this resistance despite all the very difficult conditions. I also remember my friend Rosida with respect and gratitude because I knew her closely.

Our friend Gulistan was a very important member of the free press. The Turkish state is hostile to all Kurds who live and stand up for their freedom. Who created the Kurd who strives for freedom? The PKK did. So the Turkish state is hostile to everyone affected by our struggle. It is hostile to the cadres of this movement; it is hostile to artists, everybody doing cultural works, journalists… They are enemies to everyone. Gulistan was a friend who participated in this struggle with great consciousness. She worked in the press in southern Kurdistan for many years, and she also worked in Shengal (Sinjar) and in Rojava. From time to time she also came to the mountains and made programs and conducted interviews there as well. She was a very valuable comrade who made a significant contribution to our freedom struggle. I did not have the opportunity to meet Hero Bahadin in person, but she was also a member of the free press. The Turkish state is deliberately targeting and attacking everyone who contributes to the freedom struggle, whether they are journalists or artists or whatever.

I commemorate all these comrades with great respect and gratitude. The contribution they made to the freedom struggle is immense. They carried out their sacrificial struggle under the most difficult conditions by overcoming all kinds of difficulties, and they endeavored to lead this struggle to success until their last breath. In this respect, the values created by them within our freedom struggle are of great importance. The guerrilla and this striving for freedom, created by the struggle waged and developed by the ideas of Rêber Apo, are of great value. It is about patriotism, freedom, democracy, and serving humanity. Yes, they were fighting for the freedom of the Kurdish people, but they were also contributing to all of humanity with their thoughts and struggles. Their struggle was universal. In this respect, once again I commemorate these friends with great gratitude and respect.

The occupation attacks of the fascist Turkish state in Kurdistan continue, as does the resistance of the freedom fighters against it. In northern Kurdistan, the AKP-MHP fascism had claimed that there would not be a single guerrilla left on the anniversary of the founding of the Turkish Republic. However, for the last year, the 101st anniversary of the founding of the Republic of Turkey, everywhere from Botan to Serhat, from Dersim (tr. Tunceli) to Garzan, actions of the guerrilla have taken place. Despite all collaborators, the historical resistance Zap could not be broken. What is the current situation of the guerrilla resistance against the fascist Turkish army?

A great struggle has been going on since their attack on Gare on February 9th, 2021. It is a truly historic struggle that will go down in the history of warfare. The fascist Turkish army already suffered a defeat in Gare in their first attack. Since the current government has built its existence and life on Kurdish enmity and the destruction of Kurds, it persistently pursues the policy of attacking the Medya Defense Zones and attacking the guerrilla in northern Kurdistan. Against this, the guerrilla is resisting as a whole. It is waging a great resistance.

This is the Kurdish struggle over existence or extinction. Rêber Apo used to say that this struggle for existence might last 50 years, maybe even 100 years if necessary, because the enemy is determined to destroy the Kurdish people. It wants to conduct a genocide. No Kurd should be mistaken in this point. The policy of the Turkish state is genocide. A Kurd who is not aware of this, doesn’t think about it, doesn’t understand it, is a Kurd in dangerous heedlessness. This state wants to genocide the Kurds. This is the state policy after the Treaty of Lausanne. The Treaty of Lausanne itself is also a genocidal treaty. International powers, especially Britain and France, allowed and approved the policy of genocide of the Kurds in exchange for Mosul and Kirkuk being left to Iraq. This policy is still continued today; they still do not pursue a Kurdish policy outside of this policy. And the Turkish state, with the support it receives from this policy and based on it, persistently continues its policy of genocide of the Kurds.

This genocide on a nation consisting of tens of millions of people is, of course, multifaceted. There is cultural genocide, ecocide, sociocide, killings through physical attacks, oppression, imprisonment, and torture, and they are all aimed at realizing this genocide. Being aware of this sinister and inhuman reality, the guerrilla is resisting. When this is the consciousness, of course the war will be continued sacrificially until the end. It is unthinkable for Kurds to give up this war. It is unthinkable for the guerrilla to give up this struggle. Everybody should be aware of this. Our struggle for freedom has historical, social, and cultural depth. It is deeply rooted in the consciousness of the people and is growing on the understanding of the democratic nation. There are also previous historical resistances in Kurdish society, but this 50-year struggle has gained a historical, social, cultural, democratic, and national depth that enables it to be continued. It is unthinkable to prevent this struggle by attacking the guerrilla. This struggle will continue until the policy of genocide is defeated. This is the decision and will of the Kurdish people. There is no turning back from this. 50 years of struggle have created a new idea, struggle, and understanding of freedom and the reality of a society inextricably linked in its strive for freedom.

The enemy speaks about a lock, locking down the areas of the guerrilla, etc. These are empty sayings. It is the KDP they have locked. The KDP is currently in its weakest period and solely survives by force, relying totally on the Turkish Republic and on some foreign powers, because the legitimacy of the KDP among Kurds is gone. It can propagate whatever it wants, but it has no legitimacy. Without our 50 years of struggle, the achievements in southern Kurdistan would not have emerged. Yes, the people in southern Kurdistan struggled; they were tortured and persecuted, but if we had not waged and developed this struggle, these results would not have emerged.

The Turkish state failed to achieve results despite all the attacks. Using all kinds of means and all kinds of dirty warfare, it still failed to achieve results. The war continues in the Medya Defense Zones. It continues in Zap, it continues in Metina, it continues in Avashin, it continues in Gare, and it continues in northern Kurdistan. Our freedom struggle has a wide field of action. And we will turn all the Medya Defense Zones and even the whole of southern Kurdistan into an area of resistance against the Turkish state. In this respect, they can propagate whatever they want, but at end it still remains what it truly is: empty words. If it was up to Suleyman Soylu, their occupation would have been completed three or four years ago. But as can be seen, this was not the case. Our guerrilla struggle will continue to decipher their propaganda for what it is: empty words.

After the signed agreements between Ankara, Baghdad and Hewler (Erbil) and their deepened collaboration, the fascist Turkish state’s attacks on civilians increased. What can you share about the current stage of the agreement that brings nothing but harm to the Kurds and the Iraqi peoples?

This agreement is a blunder for Iraq. With the pressure of the KDP and the Turkish Republic, Iraq has really entered into an agreement of blunder. Iraq certainly has problems on an economic and social level, but it is mistaken if it thinks that it can achieve solutions through agreements with the Turkish government, if it thinks it will get rid of its problems by agreeing to liquidate the PKK. I guess that’s what it is hoping, but it is mistaken. This is a blunder. On the contrary, this agreement will increase Iraq’s political problems and troubles in the future. They were working on expelling Turkey from Bashiqa for years. Now they have made it official. With that agreement, Turkey has actually paved the way to reach its dreams of Mosul and Kirkuk; it has become official. Iraq offered the Turkish state this opportunity, this possibility, this ground. They can label their agreement whatever they want; at the end, it is a first step of a formalization of the occupation of Iraqi land through Turkey. The Turkish government expresses this openly. They say Mosul and Kirkuk are now theirs. How does the Iraqi government search to prevent this? Will the EU prevent it? They must really be in a state of ignorance.

The result of this agreement is of course massacre. Civilians have been murdered, and they are again attacking Makhmour. They are already attacking Shengal at every opportunity and they are openly attacking Rojava based on this agreement. As a pretext they say that they are attacking the guerrilla, attacking the PKK. But they are killing people everywhere. They are killing civilians, massacring them. Does the Turkish state have a right to do so? If that is the case, then one should expect that the Turkish state will also attack media representatives and journalists in Europe. Wherever there is a Kurd striving for freedom, they will target him. Those who started the struggle for freedom against the oppression of the Turkish state were the PKK, was Rêber Apo. How can the Turkish state be allowed to attack the pursuit of freedom? How can this be justified? How can the Iraqi government justify this? Once again, we condemn this policy in the strongest possible terms. If you look at the reality, you can also clearly see that this agreement is not accepted in Iraq. It is a very damaging agreement. As if a war has broken out and the government has signed its capitulation letter. That’s what it looks like when you take a closer look at the agreement. An agreement that follows a decline. From now on, the Turkish state will rely on this agreement and justify every further shameful step it takes in southern Kurdistan and Iraq with it. Who is opposing it? It is the guerrillas who are resisting; it is they who will let this policy of the Turkish state come to nothing.

Just recently, we passed the 44th anniversary of the September 12 military coup in Turkey. What have been the effects of this coup until today?

Before the military coup, there was an important struggle for freedom in the society of Turkey, and there were also severe contradictions. Society was opening up to capitalism, but both the society in Turkey and the society in Kurdistan lived according to their traditional social values and principles. Capitalism destroys all such traditions, values, and principles of society. It builds everything on self-interest and destroys all those values of sociality, rights, justice, equality, neighborliness, and brotherhood. In this process, a social struggle emerged in Turkey. The struggle of laborers, workers, and the people had emerged. In a way, it was actually a rebellion of the socialist mentality, of that socialist tradition, against the development of capitalism, against the disintegration of society by capitalism.

At the same time, the Turkish state gained new opportunities and deepened its genocide policy on the Kurds step by step. Of course, the Kurds also had a reaction against this. There was a great struggle waged, especially by our movement. A social and political crisis emerged in Turkey. This was not a black-and-white conflict between one side and the other. There was the struggle of society against capitalism and the struggle of the Kurds against genocide. Against this, the Turkish state, the counter-guerrilla, backed by foreign powers, attacked both the Kurdish liberation forces and the democratic society struggling against capitalism, including the democratic and leftist forces. In fact, the main justification for September 12 was the struggle in Kurdistan. If I remember correctly, in Mehmet Ali Birand’s book, when Kenan Evren talks about how they decided on the military coup on September 12, he says that on their way from Merdin (tr. Mardin), they passed through Riha (tr. Shanliurfa), Curne Resh (tr. Hilvan), and Sewreg (tr. Siverek). They say that is when they took their decision.

September 12 had far-reaching consequences. They saw that there was a great tendency to organize in Turkey and Kurdistan. Dozens of leftist organizations were organizing. Society was prone to organization. Because social values had not yet completely collapsed. Society was prone to organization and social struggle because it hadn’t become a society that was completely individualistic, which capitalism had dispersed. Thus, in order to spread capitalism, they attacked in order to block the efforts to organize and create confusion. Of course, an essential aim of the military coup was to crush the Kurdish liberation struggle. They attacked Kurdistan as if they wanted to colonize it anew. Tens of thousands were imprisoned and tortured. Accordingly, they developed a new policy. In order to eradicate the Kurdish identity and break the resistance of the Kurds, they isolated them and tried to make their policy ineffective. They had been trying to do this against the Kurds and left-wing forces since the founding of the republic. At that time, they also took action against devout Islamic circles. They tried to remove them completely from politics, but not from society. After all, the state still needed religion, but it was massively attacked in the political and cultural sphere. They wanted to keep Islam on a short leash and integrate parts of the left-wing forces into the state in order to isolate the Kurds and make it easier to drive forward their destruction. In short, this is the policy that emerged in the wake of the military coup on September 12. Today they say that they are against the coup, but if you take a closer look, you can see that the fruits of the coup are still harvested today. They have not turned their backs on the system that has been established since then. The continued attack on the democratic forces in the country, as well as the attack on the Kurdish people, is today’s continuation of the system established back then. Even before that, the state had worked hard to weave Islam into this concept, but there remained a part that did not take part in the genocide of the Kurds and stayed away from it. On September 12, they focused on the last remnants of Islam in Turkey in order to make them serve the genocide. Erdogan today is an offspring and continuator of this. The beliefs and feelings of the Kurdish people are being played with. This is the system of September 12. A system that continues to this day. Our struggle has prevented them from being successful with this system, has prevented them from spreading everywhere in society, but the system of September 12 has not yet been destroyed.

A great struggle was waged against this. It was a resistance that was carried out in the prisons and was led by Mazlum⁴, Ferhat, Eshref, Necmi, Mahmut⁵, Hayri⁶, Kemal⁷, Akif⁸ and Ali⁹. Their resistance actually dealt the biggest blow to the military coup. The coup was ideologically defeated in Kurdistan, and a blow was struck in Turkey. Of course, while evaluating September 12, I commemorate these martyrs. They made great contributions to the struggle for freedom. I also remember with gratitude and respect our ten comrades who were martyred on September 24, 1996, in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) by having their heads smashed with planks. They were also important militants that led the prison resistance. They did not surrender, and because they resisted, they were murdered. The Kurdish people, the people of Amed, should never forget them.

We continue the struggle against September 12. Yes, the left in Turkey may have been dispersed, and the democratic forces may have been dispersed and worn down, but we are still continuing this struggle. All democratic forces and the peoples of Turkey should know that the PKK and the Kurdish people fought against September 12 and against fascism. Of course, this is not to say that the leftist and democratic forces in Turkey did not struggle at all; they resisted in the prisons and outside as well. They made great sacrifices and gave many martyrs. Of course, I respectfully commemorate these comrades. But it is also clear that we have been effective in this struggle, that we have been pioneers.

Everyone should evaluate September 12, what it did to society, and what political consequences it had. Leftists, democrats, intellectuals, the Islamic community, everyone should evaluate it correctly. If it is not evaluated correctly, we cannot create a strong democratic Turkey. In order to create a strong democratic Turkey, we need to understand September 12.

In this respect, I once again commemorate those who resisted September 12 with respect and gratitude. We strongly condemn this oppressive system, and we promise that we will defeat it.

It has been revealed that 8-year-old Narin was brutally murdered in the village of Tavshantepe in Amed. It has been almost a month, but the fascist Turkish state persistently refuses to reveal the murderers. In a very immoral way, they use her murder to change the political agenda. Every day that her murder is exploited like this, it’s like her life is taken away again. How do you evaluate this incident and the attitude of the fascist Turkish state afterwards?

It is really a very sad incident. An incident that human conscience cannot bear. We wish Narin god’s mercy, and we extend our condolences to the entire Kurdish people. Narin really touched everyone’s heart with her beautiful smile. She and her smile will not be forgotten. Those who murdered her, the mentality, the structure, the system who are responsible for it, will not be forgiven. It is important to ask who murdered Narin on the one hand, and on the other one must ask, why? It is not completely clear yet. In Turkey of all places, where the state always claims to have everything under control, to monitor everything, to have the best coroners, etc., they still can’t explain what happened after almost a month. This is a really questionable and suspicious situation.

There must be reasons that prevent the results from being published. Nobody in Turkey believes the reasons they give for not presenting anything yet. Everyone has their doubts, and with the little information that has been leaked, doubts seem appropriate. They say there are confessions from individuals after the body was found, yet they are discussing. Why are they delaying it? This is an important question.

When Narin still was not found, the gendarmerie commander promised, “We’ll find her alive.” That’s interesting too. They said they would find her alive, so we thought they must have found a trace. It’s not clear why he said that. Turkish gendarmerie will surely find her! Is that the truth? Did they search at all, or did they just want to delay it, distract the public, and hope that interest in the case would disappear?

The AKP government used the incident very badly. For a month all the problems, the crimes of the AKP, the economic problems, all kinds of oppression, the genocidal practices in Kurdistan seem like they had really been forgotten; they were not on the agenda. A real sensitivity has emerged in the society; otherwise, the state might just have silently closed the case. Maybe Narin would have never been found. I remember there was Ayla who disappeared in the 1960s; she was never found. The incident back then was also a hot topic in Turkey for a short time. I guess if the public had not been sensitive, if they hadn’t pushed so hard, Narin would have disappeared in the same way. She would have rotted under the water. The first thing they said was that she had been kidnapped. They even pointed the finger at the PKK. As if PKK would kidnap children! This was propaganda to cover it up. In fact, those who made that propaganda were themselves involved in the incident. Why do they immediately say that the PKK would kidnap an 8-year-old child and take it to the mountains? This can only come from those who are complicit in the crime.

It is an approach in which they are primarily concerned with covering up, with making the incident forgotten. But this is not an everyday incident that can be dealt with locally. The state is trying to protect itself here. Didn’t Galip Ensarioglu say straight away that “the family is on friendly terms with us”? Ensarioglu works for the state in Amed and is responsible for the special war being waged there. If he had not kept his hand over it immediately, many things would probably have come to light. This needs to be evaluated and scrutinized. Why is so much covered up? How could a murder be committed so easily?

There are families in Kurdistan who have close ties to the Turkish state. They are prepared to commit any outrage for the state. They smuggle drugs for the state, bring weapons across borders, kidnap women, rape and murder. They also help the state to hold occupied territory and, for example, voluntarily become village guards. The state, which aims to destroy the liberation struggle in Kurdistan, depends on such individuals, families and villages who are prepared to commit any outrage if the state gives them land in return and prevents them from being exposed. There are such circles that have gathered around the state. They depend on each other. This is how they want to destroy the Kurdish liberation struggle. Or is it not obvious who Hizbulkontra is? Have they not committed thousands of murders? We know their current state. What did Suleyman Soylu say back then? “You will appreciate them later.”

They are some serious connections in this village…

Exactly. A village guard here, another family collaborating there. In every city, in every district, there are individuals on whom the state relies. That can also be a village or a tribe. In Shirnekh (tr. Shirnak), for example, there is the family called Tatar and Kamik Atak, and in other places there are others. There are such individuals on whom the state relies. They have to be identified.

The state’s policy needs to be questioned and exposed on the occasion of this incident. In Kurdistan, they are trying to dissuade people under the pretext of feudalism and conservatism. This state policy needs to be questioned. This village is such a village, and this family is such a family. It is based on the state. What do they do now? What happens to the black money they were dealing with? How do they get rich in such a short time? This village is part of Amed and lies close to Baglar. Bağlar is one of the most patriotic neighborhoods in Amed. It is obviously being used as a center for attacks against Baglar and Amed. It is a village that the state relies on. Of course there are other families, but the family that currently is at the center of this incident is deepest in it. This is the Guran family. They testify according to how they agreed among themselves in this murder. Actually, the other families are afraid too. If all the villages remain silent, then it is because they know what will happen to them if they speak against the state. Because they know how that family relies on the state and what kind of power they have.

We need to question this state and must remember that this is not the only murder. They did it other times too. They attacked, killed, raped, and kidnapped women many times before. Isn’t it like that? Specialized sergeants rape and attack women based on the power they receive from the state. This is the Turkish state in Kurdistan. But a democratic revolution is going on in Kurdistan. There is a democratic society in Kurdistan. Democratic families based on the free woman have been created. Against these revolutionary developments of freedom and democracy, the state is developing its policy of destruction and repression. This truth must be recognized. Today there is a democratic society in Kurdistan, a democratic society that they have wiped out in Turkey. There is a stance of free women in Kurdistan; democratic and humanitarian values are upheld.

As I pointed out before, there are parts of society that are tied to the state. But Kurdistan cannot be evaluated on the basis of them. The state must be questioned. Those who oppose the situation should start by questioning the state. It is surprising that this only happens to such a limited extent. The developments in Kurdistan are the result of the state’s unquestioned policies.

Yes, while there is a struggle and a democratic revolution in Kurdistan, there is a part that the state has appropriated for itself, which cannot be changed because it is based on the state. The state is an obstacle to democratization, to the free woman and the democratic family. The state tries to bind all the tribes to itself and keep them on their feet with a backward world view. Because they know that if they are captivated by the democratic revolution in Kurdistan, they will no longer be able to do anything against the struggle for freedom.

Then there are the Kemalists. They have always said that Kurdistan is backward and that this is why all the military campaigns to Kurdistan are taking place – to bring civilization to Kurdistan! Such approaches also exist. Instead of criticizing the state, they prefer to simply say that Kurdistan is feudal and backward. Everyone will see the democratic revolution of Kurdistan.

There are also current attacks on tradition. Tradition in itself is not a bad thing. The ethical-moral-political society spits itself out of it. Society has been able to stand on its feet from the past until today because of its ethical, moral, and political values. It’s not like there once was a slave society, then this ended and a completely new society was born. There already was a state, but the state did not reach almost eighty percent of the world until the age of capitalism. There has never been a state society. There is a social reality with some traditional values, with moral and political values, and with a conscience. It is not right to denigrate this as tradition. It was formed in history. Especially the male-dominant mentality has been formed, but it is wrong to denigrate the tradition as a whole. How did we get to today? With which values did we come? How were this morality, conscience, and culture formed? It is the wrong sociological point of view to approach it as a whole. They should read the writings of Rêber Apo to understand it correctly.

There was a society even in feudalism, but capitalism also dissolved society. One of Rosa Luxemburg’s most important assessments is that capitalism has to dissolve society in order to survive. The greatest evil of capitalism, the most important feature of its anti-humanity, is that it dissolves society; it dissolves social values. Were these social values bad? They were the moral-ethical-political values created by humanity throughout history. People were solving their own problems. In the past, there was no state. It was not needed. It is the state that sustains the negative aspects of feudalism. The state needs to be questioned. There is a democratic revolution in Kurdistan; through it, the democratic society pushes back tribal chiefs and sect sheikhs. The free individual and democratic society emerge. But in some places, the state keeps them alive for itself.

The democratic family and the free woman are developing. At the same time, there is a family that even tries to cover up a murder because they are so dependent on the state. When Erdogan speaks about family, he means the male-dominated family, which does not include women. The woman is completely absent; the head is male; everything is male. But the democratization of the family develops solely through the free women’s struggle. And that has developed in Kurdistan. In that respect, if they want to look for a backwardness, they should look for it in Turkey.

The other day in Ordu, a grandmother took a child and threw it off a balcony to kill it. Also in Tekirdag, something alike happened. The democratic mentality is not developed in Turkey. The state prevails and prevents it. Which democratic culture can develop where there is so much Kurdish hostility? This is the policy of the state. It is the result of authoritarian mentality and Kurdish hostility. You cannot solve the situation without opposing this policy. Everyone is inflicting violence on each other. This is what society has become. There is a democratic solution to the Kurdish question. If this attitude towards the Kurds is left behind, then all these contradictions in Turkey will be solved.

Galip Ensarioglu has clearly indicated that they are not saying anything because the family is connected to them. Nevertheless, they can’t present anything yet. Presumably they will ultimately pin the whole thing on a single person in order to protect the family. Because they know that if they succeed in getting the family out of the incident, they will be even more closely tied to them. On the other hand, they are afraid that if they can’t get them out of it, other families and individuals who are still tied to them will break away from them.

The question that remains now is what role the democratic forces have to play.

There should be no cacophony. Everything is discussed, everything is made ambiguous. In this way, of course, the state and those who want to hide this murder benefit from the ambiguity.

The women’s movements and the Kurdish people embraced Narin. This is important. This must be held up. Narin should be kept alive as a social conscience. This conscience should be mobilized not only for Narin’s murder but also for all the other murders and attacks that take place. Whenever a Kurdish child is killed by the state, action must be taken. I think the opposition and democratic forces should evaluate the developments accurately.

Rêber Apo always points out that capitalism disintegrates society, but he also underlines that society does never die. These social values we were talking about were formed over thousands of years. They were formed over tens of thousands of years. The human is a social being. Erdogan is the most immoral person in the world. He has no social conscience. There is no other person who evaluates everything for the benefit of his own power as much as he does. He said, “We will do whatever is necessary, whether it takes.” This is the mentality; whatever the imam does, the congregation does. He said, “We will kill both women and children,” and he killed them. He murdered in Rojava, in all of Kurdistan, and he continues to do so. The AKP government’s lack of social conscience and morality needs to be exposed more.

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