our interviews

I would like to start with the situation of Kurdish peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan, which determines the struggle of the Kurdish people and your freedom movement. In previous programs you have widely evaluated the global campaign for his physical freedom and the attitude of international institutions that ignore this struggle. Based on the recent developments, how do you evaluate the current level of the campaign and what are your goals for the next phase of the movement?

For 26 years, our leader, Rêber Apo¹, has been developing a great resistance in the face of a genocidal system. There is a truly glorious peoples, guerrilla, and prison resistance developing around him. For 26 years, our leader has been held as a hostage in the hands of the Turkish state which is conducting a hostage policy. There is some information that has reached us in these last few days that we consider important to share with the public.

According to information from reliable sources, some authorized people from Erdogan’s administration said that under some conditions, they would let Rêber Apo see his brother and, afterwards, his lawyers. But in order for them to allow these visitations, they have conditions. In other words, they want us to make concessions.That is what they said. The source of this information is reliable, we know the groups and individuals who have disclosed this information. We also know the policy they these groups have been conducting with Erdogan for years. This is a very important situation, we wanted the public to know about it.

Indeed, a very despicable policy is being carried out against Rêber Apo. He once stated that he was a hostage in the hands of the Turkish state. We have always pointed out that such approaches have existed for years. We have always said that the Turkish state is conducting a policy based on blackmail and bargaining in regards to the situation of our leader. Now this is an example that confirms this once again. Rêber Apo is being treated as a bargaining chip. This is extremely despicable, extremely ugly, and dirty; they really know no moral or legal boundaries.

Of course, we strongly reject and condemn such dirty and disgusting approaches and policies. Let us state this clearly. Under no circumstances can our leader be made a bargaining chip. We will never accept this. It is even written in the Turkish laws that the right of the leader to consult his lawyers and to see his family, as well as the right to communicate with the outside world, is the most natural, legitimate, and legal right. This is also written in international law. Turkey has signed these international laws and conventions. To take the most natural, legitimate, and legal right of our leader and make it a subject of bargaining, is despicable.

The rights –legal, human, natural, and legitimate rights– of our leader cannot be made the subject of bargaining. This point must be clear, since it is very crucial. There are many writers, illustrators, and politicians in Turkey who pass themselves off as intellectuals, who supposedly defend the rule of law, who fight for secularism and democracy, who identify themselves as Kemalists, leftists, or socialists, and who defend the values of the republic. They consider law, justice, and democracy as fundamental human rights and a fundamental right for the society in Turkey. So what do they say regarding the ongoing situation in Imrali? Now in Imrali, Turkish law and international law are being trampled on. The law is being violated. For 26 years, there has been a system of torture and isolation in Imrali. For the last four years, there has been a systematic practice of solitary confinement and absolute isolation. And now this practice has spread all over Turkey. There is a terrible system of isolation and torture in all prisons now. People who have conducted their prison sentences are not being released. People, sick people, seriously ill people are dying in prison. People aged 70, 80, 85 are arrested and put in prisons. Tiny babies are growing up in prisons. This lawlessness developed in Imrali and has now spread throughout Turkey. This is being practiced on Kurdish politicians and revolutionaries in a multiplied way. What do these writers and intellectuals in Turkey who define themselves as left-wing democrats, defenders of the law, defenders of justice say about this? If they say nothing, what do they have to do with being intellectuals or writers?

Anyone who tramples on the law in such a way, anyone who doesn’t say a word, who doesn’t utter a sentence about the lawlessness in Imrali, about these disgusting negotiations, and about this dirty politics being carried out through Imrali, cannot be called an intellectual. Someone like this cannot be called a politician of the people, cannot be called opposition, cannot be called a defender of democracy, justice, and humanity. Imrali is a litmus paper, a measure of how much of an intellectual, leftist, democrat, socialist, and defender of justice and law one is. A person reveals their true face in their approach to Imrali and in their approach to these disgusting policies, injustices, and unlawfulness practiced against our leader. This is the determining factor.

The criteria of law, justice, and democracy advocacy are the approaches developed against the torture and isolation system imposed on Rêber Apo in Imrali. Of course, it also reveals how important this global freedom campaign is and how necessary it is in a very striking way. All this is actually a result of the pressure built up through the campaign. It is the freedom campaign that has brought the fascist regime to such a point. The regime is having much difficulty in the face of the struggle. It is in a deadlock, unsure of what to do. Especially the lawyers are carrying out a very significant and valuable work and struggle. The situation in Rêber Apo and the isolation and torture system in Imrali have been put on the agenda of the United Nations (UN). It is also on the agenda of the Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe (CoE). The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) will also convene in September to evaluate this situation. The ECHR said years ago that what has been going on in Imrali is torture and a violation of rights. Despite knowing this, these institutions have just been observing for years. In other words, they have been watching these unlawful acts, this massacre, and these genocide policies without showing any effort to act. In fact, not only are they just watching; they are also a partner to these policies. Now, the struggle through the global freedom campaign has built up so much pressure that these institutions have had to put this situation on the agenda. This is a very important result, and the struggle must be continued in this way. Because in the person of Rêber Apo, all human values are under heavy attack. There is a terrible attack on freedom, democracy, justice, law, and all human values. In that respect, one must not tolerate this in any way. It is necessary to struggle until the end, and we will definitely achieve great results.

The people’s struggle has also created a certain sensitivity and a certain form of assumption of responsibility; we need to continue to raise this without interruption. We always point out that the situation of Rêber Apo and the Kurdish question are intertwined. Rêber Apo is the leader of the Kurdish people. He is the interlocutor for the democratic solution of the Kurdish question. Therefore, the approach to Rêber Apo is the approach to the Kurdish people, is the approach to the Kurdish question. Any positive development regarding the situation of Rêber Apo is also a development in the solution of the Kurdish question. The fate of the solution of the Kurdish question and the fate of Rêber Apo are tied to each other. There can only be a democratic solution. We need to carry out the struggle everywhere with integrity. The physical freedom of Rêber Apo must be at the center of the struggle everywhere. Against these genocide policies, of which Imrali is the center, we need to carry out and continue our struggle very strongly. Everywhere people must struggle against these genocidal policies, against this war of genocide, and instead for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. As long as we continue this strongly and uninterruptedly, we will definitely yield great results.

We are in the month of July. July 14th² marks the 42nd anniversary of the great action you refer to as the ‘Great Resistance’ and ‘National Day of Honor’. As the PKK, you have declared that you have always grown based on the spirit of July 14th. How is the July 14th spirit of resistance reflected in your struggle today?

Of course, first of all, I commemorate the martyrs of the great death fast, comrade Kemal Pir³, Mehmet Hayri Durmus⁴, Akif Yilmaz⁵ and Ali Cicek⁶, and all the martyrs of the July 14 resistance with all due respect, love and gratitude. These comrades put forward a historic resistance against the fascist darkness of September 12⁷. They showed everyone that fascism can be defeated through resistance in even the most difficult conditions, even in the darkest periods of fascism. With their resistance, they proved to everyone, friend and foe alike, that all difficulties, all oppression, and all persecution can be overcome and defeated through resistance, and that free life can only be achieved through resistance. In this sense, they created a tradition, a line, and a spirit of resistance. For 42 years, the Kurdish people have been struggling and resisting according to this line of resistance. And it has created a very strong legacy of values and achievements. Again in this spirit, the guerrilla of Kurdistan, the freedom guerrilla, has been fighting for years, waging a self-defense war. Today, this war continues with the same spirit in the regions of Zap and Metina, in the provinces of northern Kurdistan, and everywhere throughout all of Kurdistan. In Rojava, a great struggle has been waged for years with this spirit. The revolution of Rojava, which today affects the whole world and is a source of inspiration and hope for all of humanity, emerged out of the struggle carried out within this spirit. Therefore, the struggle along this line and in the spirit of July 14th has brought about great gains in Kurdistan. It created the identity of the free Kurd. It brought with it the paradigm of the Democratic Nation and the system of Democratic Confederalism. Rêber Apo led this struggle with great devotion to the martyrs of July 14th, and this struggle has brought about great developments in the line of their resistance.

Today, the Kurdish freedom movement is leading the revolutionary process in the Middle East becoming a key actor. Today, under the leadership of the Kurdish freedom movement, the Kurdish people are waging a great struggle for democracy and freedom. It is leading the peoples of the Middle East and is playing a great transformative role in liberation and democratization. These are very great achievements. And all these gains have emerged with the spirit of the July 14 understanding of struggle and resistance.

These are very valuable. This struggle continues to develop, grow, and become a united struggle, fighting fiercely against betrayal and surrender. The July 14th struggle against surrender and against betrayal is actually a great reaction to the collaborationist circles that act together with the colonialist, genocidal regime against the freedom of the Kurdish people today. Surrender and betrayal were condemned and almost buried in 1982 under the fascist September 12 coup.

Now, in the same line, in the same spirit, against this collaborative, treacherous, treacherous line, the entire Kurdish people must resist, struggle, take a strong stance. They must condemn betrayal and collaboration, and achieve freedom and victory. The July 14 resistance is proof of this. The July 14 resistance showed the world that submission will be defeated, betrayal will be defeated, oppression, fascism, and all kinds of oppression will be defeated. Now, the struggle that has been waged for 42 years in that line of struggle has revealed a very magnificent public stance and resistance. If our people develop this struggle and this resistance with the same spirit, emotion, consciousness, will, and organization against this oppressive, treacherous, and collaborative line and against the genocidal, colonialist, and fascist regime, this fascism will surely be defeated. The collaborationist, treacherous line will be buried in history along with this fascism.

As for the war, the attacks of the Turkish state in terms of the occupation of South Kurdistan have gained a new dimension. The invaders pass through official border gates and city centers before the eyes of the world. How do you evaluate this latest situation, and what has the KDP to do with it?

We have already given an important statement on this issue, and it has also already been discussed in public opinion. The total genocidal war of the Turkish state has entered a new phase. The genocidal, colonialist, and fascist regime now want to get a definitive result by activating all their collaborators and betrayers in this war. Especially since mid-May, it has broadened and deepened the war with this concept. Now we are in July, and we see that this concept has gained a serious depth that we are constantly evaluating.

The ultimate goal of the Turkish state is very clear. It is to reach the borders of Misak-i Milli⁸. This is a war of annexation, not occupation, as several friends have stated before. But one must be aware of the fact that this war of occupation-annexation is certainly not a war that developed in recent months. In 2019, there was actually already a war of occupation and annexation that started with Xakurke, and then later there was the great battle of Heftanin. Since that day, the Misak-i Milli policy has been fully put into effect in southern Kurdistan. In Rojava, they started with the occupation of Afrin in 2018. Then Gire Spi followed. This continues to develop step by step. Now they consider this as the finale. In other words, this year they aim to bring the policy of occupation and annexation to a conclusion. Devlet Bahceli has admitted this and said that they are following the policy of Misak-i Milli. The ruling Turkish media is discussing this every day openly. It is public. The fascist Turkish state established a big military base in Bashiqa several years ago. What is the Turkish state doing in Bashiqa? They have established nearly a hundred military bases in southern Kurdistan, and now they are trying to make all these bases permanent. They are trying to turn all of them into fortresses. Therefore, they are also building new roads, hand in hand with the KDP. All those border gates that were opened in the name of trade are now being used for military purposes. Turkey is currently making military shipments through the so-called border customs gates. The KDP has opened all its roads to the Turkish army. Everyone can look at the Amediye road. This is a process that, in fact, has been going on for years.

The Turkish state sees the conditions of World War III as a great opportunity for itself. They see that there is currently war everywhere and assume that no one will intervene in their plans because everyone is busy with war and doesn’t care much about the law or human rights. Thinking that the attention is diverted, the Turkish state is assessing the current global situation as an opportunity for themselves. When everyone is indulged in war, the Turkish state thinks that nobody is going to confront them. They hope to take advantage of this opportunity and implement the Misak-i Milli policy, and they hope to completely occupy and annex southern Kurdistan and Rojava. They hope that they can turn these areas into Turkey’s territory without anyone interfering. Turkey’s old borders are no more. Right now, the borders between Iraq and Turkey have disappeared since Turkey has changed them. Turkey did not accept these borders when they were determined. It has never accepted them. They always claimed that their border would be the Hemrin Mountains. They draw a border that includes Kirkuk, Mosul, Sulaymaniyah, and all these areas. This is the policy being carried out right now. And the KDP is a partner in this policy. The KDP is in this war.

Right now, the KDP is waging a genocidal war against the Kurds together with the AKP and MHP. It is capitalizing at the cost of the blood and lives of free Kurds. They are buying villas for themselves all over the world. We assessed in our last statement that some people portray the situation as if there are problems between the KDP and the PKK, saying that the KDP and PKK should not be in conflict, that they should keep distance, and follow a different constructive policy. They say that the KDP and PKK should solve their conflicts, and in the meantime, national unity would be formed. There is such a group among the Kurdish people. This is deception. There is no such situation. When one looks at the current situation, there are currently two lines. One is the line of betrayal. The line between collaborators and traitors. The other one is the line of freedom. While one is waging a war on the side of the genocidal colonialist Turkish state against the free Kurds, the other one gives its life and sheds its blood every day to defend the free Kurds. How can you put them on the same level? How can you treat this situation as a problem between two parties? How can you define an organization, a Gladio structure that fights a war of genocide together with the enemy, that takes part in the war of genocide, that is up to its neck in betrayal, as a Kurdish party? There is no such situation. The reality is evident. The Turkish army entered southern Kurdistan with hundreds of armored vehicles and tanks, using the road of Amediye and the official trade border gate. On the same day that this happened, July 3, Massoud Barzani was silent. He later suddenly went to Baghdad in a hurry. In Baghdad, he held meetings with many Shiite and Sunni groups, met with almost all Arab consuls and ambassadors, the Iranian ambassador, and held meetings with the Turkish consulate and ambassador. He was engaged in an intense activity. Why did he leave that day? We have also already made a statement in this regard.

There are important circles in Baghdad that are uncomfortable with the Turkish state’s neo-ottoman policies and occupation policies. There is also a very serious section – from parties to various bureaucrats to various individuals – within the Iraqi state that is uncomfortable with this. Barzani went and tried to convince these circles, trying to prevent a reaction from developing publicly. One may remember that when there were invasion attacks before, the Arab countries and the Arab League made various statements of condemnation and expressed their stance. This time, Barzani went and gathered the ambassadors of Arab countries and held a meeting. He tried to prevent a possible reaction. He worked very hard on this issue. At the end, he came and met with the Turkish consul in Hewler (Erbil). He is lobbying and doing politics on behalf of Turkey. They played the same role in the invasion attacks on Rojava. When the invasion of Afrin happened, the KDP played a very active role in diplomacy. It worked to legitimize the occupation. It played the same role in the invasion of Serekaniye. All the formations affiliated with it, large and small, were engaged in the same activities. Now Barzani is very actively lobbying and conducting intensive diplomacy on behalf of Turkey in order to legitimize Turkey’s occupation and annexation policies and to prevent any possible reaction against them. In other words, the KDP is directly involved in this genocidal war. It has sold southern Kurdistan to Turkey. Not just a part of it; it has really sold southern Kurdistan as a whole to Turkey. Turkish modernity is currently dominant in southern Kurdistan. With its TV series, movies, politics, economy, and military, right now, southern Kurdistan has turned into Turkey’s garbage dump. All the goods that are dumped in Turkey are sold in southern Kurdistan. All kinds of diseases and health problems are now rising in southern Kurdistan. Because the people of the South are fed from Turkey’s garbage. Politically, it is the same. Right now, it is in the service of such genocidal policies, this genocidal fascist regime. At the moment, all of southern Kurdistan is experiencing a state of occupation and annexation. What else are occupation and annexation? It is this. Is there no political will? Is there no Kurdish will? Is there no stance against this within the politics of southern Kurdistan? There is none. This is occupation and annexation.

The Iraqi government and the Sudani government also approved the occupation policies of the Turkish state for some dirty interests, for simple gains, and for political and economic interests. The Iraqi state is fragmented within itself; there are many tendencies, and it is known that there are those who oppose this occupation. It is also known that there are those who are very seriously angry. But the situation in the Iraqi state is obvious. It is fragmented, disorganized, and weakened, and the government of this state has agreed with the Turkish state over various political and economic interests, has approved this invasion, and has become a part of it. We are convinced that Iraqi society is very angered by this situation. This does not help Iraq either. These policies will have consequences in the future and will cause great damage to Iraq. Iraq shot itself on the foot. In this way, with this policy, it legitimized the Turkish occupation and legitimized the KDP’s collaboration with the Turkish state for years. In this sense, we strongly criticize and condemn this attitude of the Iraqi government. My call – on behalf of our organization, our movement – is to the people of southern Kurdistan and the Iraqi people, the Iraqi society. The KDP’s collaborative, treasonous attitude and the Sudani government’s attitude that legitimizes and approves the occupation causes great harm to you. It darkens your future. Our peoples must take a very strong stance against this. They must take a firm stance against the occupation. Everywhere, the occupation must be protested.

Again, Arab intellectuals, writers, and generally all democratic individuals must put forward a strong voice and attitude against this. Now, some reactions are developing, but they are insufficient. It is necessary to develop this more strongly. All forces must unite against this betrayal, against collaborationism, and against the genocidal, colonialist, and fascist regime’s genocidal war. They must wage a common and united struggle. There is a very urgent need for this now. The process we are in right now is really a very critical and historical one. If no strong attitude is put forward, the dangers are very great.

Yes, the guerrilla is resisting. It is resisting very gloriously and self-sacrificially. They are giving their lives every day. But this struggle cannot be dependant on only the resistance of the guerrilla. The guerrillas are resisting and giving their lives for the freedom of the peoples and a democratic future. The peoples must take part in this resistance. They should not only be supporters. They must be directly involved in this resistance. They must stand up everywhere and show a very strong organized will against this occupying, genocidal war, and fascism. That is what we call the line of resistance, according to July 14th. Now is the time to put forward this attitude.

One can no longer say “the guerrilla is resisting, let’s support it”. This necessity of the current situation goes beyond support. Now is the period of self-defense of the people. It is the period of the people developing its own self-defense. Our people must rise up everywhere, they must do their own self-defense. What is the revolutionary people’s war? Revolutionary people’s war is self-defense. It is to stand up against all kinds of attacks and develop one’s own self-defense. It cannot expect to be protected solely by the guerrilla. The guerrilla is doing what it will do. Victory is not won only by the guerrilla’s struggle and resistance. Victory is achieved through the joint struggle, resistance and self-defense of the guerrilla and the people. From now on, the people will have to see themselves as responsible of this struggle and will have to develop and raise self-defense, and the Revolutionary People’s War everywhere. We are not saying to our people that each one of you should take a sword, a pistol, a machine gun, or a missile and fight. We are not saying that. What we are saying, is that there is a very serious attack everywhere. Our people must rise up everywhere, from the age of 7 to 70. They need rise up in Serhildans⁹, they must develop self-defense. Serhildan is the strongest form of self-defense of the people. Our people need to develop this.

Our people have paid a high price over all these years. And so many great achievements have emerged. The reality is that freedom is very close. Now it is time to guarantee, secure, protect, and defend this in the strongest way possibln an all-out manner. It is especially important to emphasize and discuss this point. Everyone should participate in this struggle as a whole with all their strength and energy by subjecting themselves to very strong criticism and self-criticism and making a strong accounting of where their place is in this struggle and how they. I see this as highly important.

The guerrilla warfare continues everywhere with great heroism and at great cost. There is great resistance all over northern Kurdistan. Many valuable comrades have been martyred within it. Comrade Shekhmus, Beritan, Brusk, Rustem, Kamuran, Axin, and dozens of other valuable comrades have been martyred in this recent period. We have given tens of thousands, more than fifty thousand martyrs. And we continue to pay this high price. There is very unparallaled resistance everywhere. Our comrades, under the most difficult conditions, going hungry, thirsty, and sometimes without shoes or sleep, have been conducting this resistance and struggle for years in the spirit of July 14th and continue to do so. This resistance has been going on for more than four years in Zap, Metina, Avashin, Heftanin, Xakurke, and everywhere, in all the Medya Defense Zones¹⁰, with Zap as the center. In the most recent period, we have lost comrade Onur and our commander Canfeda. I commemorate all the martyrs with respect, love, and gratitude. I bow to their memories with respect. We will continue this resistance, following their legacy. What is important is that our people see themselves as a part of this. Following the same spirit, mobilize themselves for the resistance, stand up everywhere, and continue this uninterrupted struggle. They should not just observe; they should not just be supporters. It is about being part of the resistance.

When I express these things and criticize the current level of resistance, I don’t mean that our people don’t resist or that they don’t see themselves as part of this struggle. I believe in the consciousness of our people, their level of knowledge of this movement, and their level of comprehension; they understand very well what we mean. I mean, of course, our people have been waging this struggle uninterruptedly, especially for the last 42 years. This is where the invincibility of this struggle lies. Our people are, of course, at the center of this struggle. They have paid a very heavy price for it. Today, tens of thousands of people are in prisons, under torture; even our 70- to 80-year-old grandmothers and grandfathers are in prisons, under torture conditions, under pressure. Our people are giving their lives. Sick prisoners are losing their lives. Of course, we are aware of this. This is a very valuable attitude. But in terms of the stage the struggle has reached, one has to line out that it is sufficient. We are now waging a great and final war against the genocidal colonialist Turkish state. In other words, the Turkish state is waging a total war of genocide against the Kurdish freedom movement, against the Kurdish people who are struggling for freedom, and against the peoples. The struggle against this total war of, genocide in the way it has been waged so far, does not constitute a sufficient answer. A total struggle and a total resistance are necessary. This is what I mean. The current level of participation and resistance is expected, and I sincerely believe that our people will develop this further. Until now, our people have brought this struggle to this day by risking all kinds of costs and suffering great pain. From now on, this struggle will definitely triumph with the joint resistance of our people and the resistance of the guerrilla. I’m strongly convinced by this.

In your evaluation, you already touched on the Turkish Republic’s concept of war regarding the recent period. Erdogan’s intensified diplomatic efforts on this basis are in the spotlight. Is it possible to link these economic and social problems in Turkey to the war? What are your views on this issue?

Erdogan is obviously traveling from continent to continent to gather support for his genocidal war. One day he is in Asia; he has one foot in Russia and the other foot in China. Then he is in Kazakhstan, followed by I don’t know where. Then you look, and he’s gone to America. He is constantly wandering. There is only one goal and reason: he tries to get more support for this genocidal war. There is already a lot of support. He has been waging his war with NATO’s support for years, and this continues. Now, even Iraq’s attitude is linked to NATO and the US. Sudani went to America; he stayed there for a week before meeting Erdogan. Sudani had many meetings before coming back to Baghdad, and the moment he arrived, also Erdogan came to Bagdad. They had talks and made 22–27 agreements, and after this, a comprehensive annexation and occupation attack began. Iraq gave its consent to this. The attitude of Iraq is not independent from the attitude of America and the talks held there. NATO has been supporting the Turkish regime for years. And it continues its support. But even despite this, the Turkish regime is not getting results.

Right now, the fascist regime is collapsing, even though it is still struggling not to. One only needs to look at Turkey; its politics have collapsed. Its domestic and foreign policies have collapsed. The economy has collapsed. The decay in society is knee-deep; the regime is trying to sustain itself with nationalism and chauvinism by militarizing society. Society is gradually decaying morally like this. All this in order for the society in Turkey not to follow the developments in the genocidal war in Kurdistan. The regime is always afraid that society would rise up. Like this, society will rot. Its morality is already diminishing. Kurds will be massacred in front of their doors; a people is subjected to genocide; even their graves and even their bones are being disrespected. The bones of children are given to their mothers in boxes. Turkish mothers will have to sit and watch this. Will a mother who remains silent about this, remain a mother? Will her morals remain? Will the conscience of that father remain moral? Will the conscience and morals of that society remain? It would become corrupt and rotten. Kurds are subjected to so much lawlessness and injustice. In every aspect, Kurdish society is subjected to such an attack of injustice and rape, and the society in Turkey just silently sits and watches. Will anything of morality, conscience, dignity, and humanity remain in that Turkish society? No, it will rot and degenerate. It has already started to rot. This dirty politics has also caused society to rot. They still discuss the economy. Is there any economy left? I mean, all the resources of Turkey were poured into this war. The state poured the economy into the Kurdish genocide war. Now, the society in Turkey is left hungry! They are at the limit, having long surpassed normal poverty conditions. People are hungry, they can’t even find bread in the garbage. In other words, they live in the most disgraceful, shabbiest situations. But doesn’t this society question it? I mean, why is a rich country like Turkey, a country with such rich resources, rich culture, and rich geography, in this situation? Because everything is sold in order to lengthen this war. Turkish society doesn’t question this.

At the same time, nature is being destroyed. Exploitation and plunder are rampant in Turkey. In Kurdistan, this is being carried out as part of genocide policies. The nature of Kurdistan is currently facing great destruction. Every part of nature gets destroyed through mines, sand pits, oil wells, dams, and all the forests being killed. The fascist regime is slaughtering not only human beings but also animals, plants, and essentially all living beings. The fires in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) and Merdin (tr. Mardin) were caused by the Turkish state. The forests of Kurdistan are burning. And what the state doesn’t burn, it cuts down, takes, and sells. It intentionally destroys nature. Because the state wants to force the people to migrate. The state wants to dehumanize the region, to populate these ares with Turks.

There was a news report regarding Shirnex (tr. Shirnak) the other day. It is a city totally surrounded by mountains and forests; it turned out to be the most polluted city in Turkey. They have created so many mining sites, all around natural spring waters, which get contaminated by all the chemicals they use in those mines. Not only the spring water is polluted, but also tar-like water flows from the taps in the houses. The state is poisoning society. There is no clean water, no clean air, and no clean soil. One should raise hell for this. Now we call it self-defense; we call it revolutionary people’s war. A great uprising is needed against this. This is self-defense. The state destroys the place you live in; it poisons it and makes it uninhabitable. The resistance against this is a resistance against the genocidal regime, against the genocidal war. A strong struggle must be waged everywhere, may it be in Shirnex, Botan, Serhat, in the South West, or in Dersim (tr. Tunceli). In all of Kurdistan, a strong struggle is necessary.

Likewise, the state is conducting a misogynist policy. Almost every day, two women are murdered; 60 to 70 women are murdered each month. It may be just a number, but it does not express uncorrelated events. There is a complete policy of genocide against women being pursued. Rape of women and prostitution are also used as part of the genocide policy in Kurdistan. Drugs and all kinds of attacks on the youth of Kurdistan take place. In other words, there is a policy of genocide of society, particularly against women. Now they are preparing the so-called 9th Judicial Package. They are eliminating everything that was in favor of women in the laws and the constitution. A united and strong women’s struggle is needed. It can not only be a women’s struggle; it needs to be a struggle of the whole society. Society needs to get out of this situation. There is a terrible policy of destruction of society, women, and nature. This is also proof that this fascist regime is collapsing. It cannot govern anymore. It is trying to keep itself alive by destroying itself. The thing to do in this regard is, of course, a strong and united struggle of the forces of labor, freedom, and democracy. Together with the democratic opposition, a strong social, ecological, and women’s struggle and resistance must be developed. If it develops, further destruction can be prevented. One shall never forget that all of these problems are the result of the genocidal war on the Kurds. All the problems in Turkey are the result of the genocidal war on the Kurds. The society must be made aware of this; it needs to open its eyes to organize and mobilize. This is the duty of the democratic opposition, the duty of the democratic forces. There are short-comings in this regard. I mean, there is a certain struggle, of course. For example, the ‘Respect the Will’ march in Northern Kurdistan, the ‘Give Voice to Freedom’ protests, or the mobilizations around the families of prisoners, the vigils against the trustee policies. These are very important. They have created a serious sensitivity in society and in public opinion in Turkey; they have created a certain revival of social struggle, and resistance has emerged. But this is still insufficient. There is a total war of genocide on society, and against this, a total social resistance must develop strongly under the leadership of the democratic forces.

There is still insufficiency in this regard. This insufficiency must be overcome quickly. It is necessary to unite all forces and wage a total and united struggle. There is a certain level of struggle, but it is insufficient in the face of attacks. We need a more united, total struggle.

There is a possible meeting of Erdogan and Assad ahead of us. What will be the repercussions of this meeting on the revolution of Rojava?

The AKP-MHP fascist regime has been pursuing a policy against Syria for years. And now there is a new attitude they have developed. This needs to be well assessed. The main actor in the Syrian civil war is the Turkish state, particularly the AKP government. It played a very serious role in the development of this civil war. In a very conscious and planned way, it attracted the Arabs from Syria to Turkey and gathered millions of people like this in camps. It has been conducting a policy over them for years, taking millions of people hostage under the name of refugees. Erdogan has taken millions of people hostage, and blackmails Europe with them, and takes money. All of this money he receives is poured into the genocidal war on the Kurds. With this money, the AKP-MHP fascist regime recruits mercenaries, organizes, feeds, and trains them. It makes them fight against the Kurds and the other people of the region. In order to get European states to support its genocidal war, it carries out attacks in Europe through these gangs and mercenaries in order to frighten and get new concessions. Turkey is also behind the attacks in Russia and Iran, as well as in Dagistan. There have been attacks in France, England, and many other countries in Europe. ISIS claimed responsibility for them, but the Turkish MIT is also behind them. It organizes the mercenaries of ISIS in order to get concessions from everyone, to extract concessions from Russia and Iran, and now they are using them against China, as they have extracted concessions from America, Germany, and France before.

On the other hand, the AKP-MHP fascist regime exports some of those mercenaries in order to expand its area of influence, to increase its effectiveness. It exports gangs to Nigeria, Libya, Somalia and to many other parts of Africa. There are many problems there too. There are civil wars, conflicts, states are weak, and it intervenes. It tries to develop its own bases by using gangs and mercenaries. It trains, equips and feeds these gangs by transferring the resources and economic resources of Turkey, which it organized with the money it received from Europe, to this war.

It uses these gangs and mercenaries against the Kurdish people, the people of the region, and the peoples and societies of the whole world in order to blackmail concessions from the states. Most of all, of course, it uses them against the Syrian state. Through them, it has occupied many places in Syria, particularly in north-west Syria. Erdogan established a gang state there. He himself appointed a district governor, which has opened its own schools and provides education in Turkish. In Rojava, it occupied Afrin, Serekaniye, and Gire Sipi. It is changing the demography there too. It is settling the families of the mercenaries and gangs there and has appointed district governors here too. It is training police and opening schools of special war. It has established a total gang state there. It uses this as a bargaining tool and as a threat against the Syrian state. It has been doing this for years and has torn Syria apart with this policy. Now more than half of Syria’s population lives outside the country in disgrace. The reason for this is the Turkish state. When this war started, a lot of information like this reached us. It turned out to be true. Erdogan is meeting with America, trying to convince the USA to allow the Turkish state to enter Syria. It was the AKP and Erdogan who put America in Syria. Now they are pontificating so much that America should get out, but you were the ones who put America there in the first place. They carried out a policy there with America against the Syrian state, established an army. Turkey has long set up a provisional a Syrian government. The head of this government, who is a Turkmen has been living in Istanbul for many years. It has been pursuing a hostile policy against Syria for years. It has been pursuing a hostile policy not only against the Kurds but against all the peoples of Syria. Why has the Turkish state come to this point now? Because its Syrian policy was futile. Erdogan planned that the gangs he organized would go, overthrow Assad, and take power in his place. They would establish an administration there under the guidance of Turkey and thus expand the Ottoman territories, since Syria used to be an Ottoman territory. So now his plans go beyond the Misak-i Milli. He wants to bring all of Syria under his control and his hegemony. He wants to rule Syria with those gangs under his control. This policy is futile. When the policy went futile, he turned his attention to the Kurds and the Kurdish genocide policy. They made invasions, used these gangs in every way, and received all kinds of support. No matter what he did, he could not get the desired results. This policy also went bankrupt. Now there is a collapsed Syrian policy. He is trying to figure out how he can manage this, how he can survive it, and how he can take Syria with him, genocide the Kurds in North and East Syria, destroy the system established by the people of North and East Syria, liquidate the revolution, and after liquidating it, take all these gangs and mercenaries and place them there, so that he can establish a policy of balance with Syria, so that he can consolidate his influence and dominance there. He is now pursuing such a policy. A regime that has been hostile to Syria for years. Doesn’t Syria, the Syrian administration, and the Bashar al-Assad administration see this? Of course, they do. They know very well what Turkey has done in Syria. If Bashar al-Assad ignores all this and joins forces with Turkey to wage a war of genocide and liquidation against the Kurds and the peoples of northern and eastern Syria, then the Bashar al-Assad government will completely liquidate itself. If he survives today, it is not only with the support of Russia and Iran. The Syrian government is standing today also as a result of the struggle and war waged by the Kurds, the peoples of Northern and Eastern Syria, against ISIS, Turkish genocide policies, Ottoman policies, and occupying policies. This is a fact. It was the peoples of northern and eastern Syria that broke the back of ISIS. It is its resistance force. After that, ISIS went downhill. It disintegrated, liquidated, and shattered. This happened in before the eyes of the world. It started in Kobane. The Syrian state and its administration barely survived. Now, if they ignore this and try to carry out a joint policy with Turkey, it would be a complete loss for Syria. In other words, it is not possible for this policy to yield results. If the opposite situation develops, of course the people of northern and eastern Syria will resist with all their might. No matter who attacks, The AKP-MHP fascist regime has lost in its Syrian policy; it was futile. Both its domestic and foreign policies have collapsed. Its defeat in the municipal elections is obvious. At the moment, it is really going downhill. It is looking for lifelines everywhere. But it is too late. No matter what it does, it does not seem possible to get results. We saw this after the Kayseri incident: AKP-MHP fascists attacked Arab refugees. There is also this kind of Arab enmity. After the calls for Syria, the attacks on Arabs in Turkey, of course, came on top of that. In all the areas it occupied, in northern Syria, everywhere, all the gangs and mercenaries stood up. In fact, this gang-mercenary policy is also futile. Now, what is he going to do with the tens of thousands of people he has gathered and made so many promises to? There is one thing he will do: he will sell them. What will happen to this structure when he sells it? It is not that easy to tell. The AKP-MHP regime is currently in such a big predicament that it is not possible for it to survive this process, no matter how pleasing the speeches may sound. It cannot make a correction in Syria in the way it wishes. There are many equations. In this respect, it is a finished regime. The one thing to do is to raise a strong struggle against it.

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