our interviews

The total isolation of Kurdish people’s leader Abdullah Ocalan is being continued, while at the same time, protests against it are also growing. How do you assess this current situation and the latest developments?

Before evaluating the isolation of Rêber Apo¹, I congratulate Rêber Apo on the occasion of the 40th anniversary of August 15th², the national Resurrection Day. Likewise, I congratulate all our freedom fighters and our people.

An intense isolation is being imposed on Rêber Apo. Just last week, comrade Besê evaluated it more in detail. So I just wanted to point out some specific points. In order to justify the continuation of the isolation, special war propaganda is being conducted. So they keep making up lies to fool people and change the agenda. Just the other day, they said that they would like to give Rêber Apo his right to hold meetings, but that it is our movement that would prevent this. This situation has not been going on for a day, a week, or a month; it has been going on for years.

Why don’t they let him meet with his family or lawyers for years? They are making baseless propaganda, creating lies and deception, but of course no one will believe this. The whole world knows how sensitive we are about Rêber Apo. In fact, there is no other movement in the world that is so protective of its leader. Even though Rêber Apo has been in captivity for 26 years and since then has been isolated, our movement, our leadership, and our people are protecting Rêber Apo with all our means. We are waging a struggle in line with Rêber Apo’s ideology and policy. The rumors that there are problems between him, our movement, and our people or that our movement does not want to meet with Rêber Apo are completely false and black propaganda.

Rêber Apo is in total isolation, and an intense struggle against this is taking place. In fact, the responsibility of the struggle for his physical freedom now goes far beyond the movement and the Kurdish people. It has become a responsibility that people around the world are taking on. The fact that 69 Nobel Prize-winning intellectuals have signed a petition for the freedom of Rêber Apo and sent letters to international organizations and the Turkish government has clearly demonstrated that the physical freedom of Rêber Apo has become the demand of all humanity. This isolation is unlawful and arbitrary; it has no legal basis.

They openly admit that they are afraid that if they were to allow his meetings, Rêber Apo would start talking, which would have a great impact on society and politics. The genocidal policies of the Turkish state would be exposed and harmed. This is the essential reason why they prevent any meetings. They express this themselves in different ways. According to what we have recently learned, a delegation of the Turkish state openly confessed during their meetings in Europe that Rêber Apo was expressing his thoughts and giving a message to the people, and that is why they are not letting him meet with the outside world. To deny a prisoner, a political prisoner, or rather a hostage, any contact is completely arbitrary and has no justification. Everything they cite as alleged justifications is lies and false constructs. The struggle against this situation continues and will continue. Certainly, we, our people, and humanity will not give up the struggle for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and will develop it.

The Turkish state and its policies have been exposed, and because they have been exposed, they are resorting to all methods of special warfare. The fact that the Turkish state is resorting to special warfare propaganda and making black propaganda, claiming, for example, that our movement does not want to meet with Rêber Apo, shows how stuck it is. It cannot give a reasonable justification for why it has not allowed the lawyers or the family to come to Imrali for years. This reflects the reality of the Turkish state. It is a state that is based on special warfare. Its policy against the Kurds does not conform to any law, politics, or morality. The essence of its fight against the Kurds is a war of perception and lies, a war to deceive and distort societies. Nothing the Turkish state says regarding the Kurdish question should be believed. Society, politicians, and the world should not fall for their lies. Lying, distortion, not showing the truth, and deceiving the world and society are the basic characteristics of this state. What kind of fascist power the Turkish state is is clearly understood from the isolation and psychological warfare against Rêber Apo. Many intellectuals and writers around the world are demanding his release. Their embrace and solidarity need to be seen as part of the global struggle for freedom and democracy.

Rêber Apo’s thoughts and paradigm are of high significance not only for the Kurdish people, the peoples of the Middle East, or Turkey, but for all of humanity. At a time when capitalist modernity is corrupting society and the world, Rêber Apo’s paradigm is a prescription for the salvation of humanity. In this respect, the people see his struggle for freedom as their own struggle for freedom. That is also the reason why solidarity with him is growing exponentially.

August 15, 1984, marks the 40th anniversary of an essential breakthrough in your movement. It was a day of resurrection that is being celebrated today in Kurdistan and in many parts of the world. The significance of the day is often assessed, and attempts are made to classify it correctly, but what I would like to ask specifically is what particular effect August 15 had on the prisons. You were in the infamous prison of Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) during that period. How was the August 15 breakthrough reflected in prison?

Before coming to my answer of your question, I would like to commemorate comrade Agit³, the commander of the August 15 breakthrough, with gratitude and respect. Comrade Agit was the commander who initiated and gave the spirit of this struggle. I also commemorate with gratitude and respect comrade Erdal⁴, comrade Huseyin Mahir⁵, comrade Zeki Shengali⁶ and comrade Atakan Mahir⁷ who were also martyred in the month of August. Also, I want to commemorate with gratitude and respect comrade Alan Malazgirt and comrade Berwar Dersim, whose martyrdom was recently announced by the People’s Defense Center (NPG). Hundreds and thousands of our friends were martyred in the month of August; I commemorate them all with respect. All of them were following the footsteps of comrade Agit, they fought in the most difficult conditions and overcame the greatest difficulties in order to make the breakthrough of August 15 a success.

When the breakthrough of August 15 took place, we were in prison. At that time, the pressure in prison had eased thanks to the January 1984 resistance within the prison. During that time, a family came to visit us. They told us that the friends had come to the Botan region and that they were making preparations in order to start guerrilla warfare. This news was sent to boost our morale. At first, I didn’t tell anyone this information, since I could not confirm whether it was just a rumor or already a fact. I didn’t tell anyone for a few months. Then I only told one friend about it. When the breakthrough finally took place on August 15, 1984, the friends around me immediately became curious; there were discussions about who had made this move and who knew about it.

Previously, during the death fast in 1982⁸, we knew that our friends were making preparations and planning an armed action because of information brought through the families. We heard that our movement was making preparations and wanted to regroup and fight. Our contact with the outside was very limited, and we received partial information about forming a guerrilla towards the end of 1983. We also received a part of a book called “The Kurdistan Problem and the Way of Solution.” This book was brought by a friend who was exiled from Xarpet (tr. Elazig) to Amed. We tried to evaluate this information and these books, but we just reached limited results. The impact was all the greater when we heard of the August 15 breakthrough. This move relieved a great burden on the friends. They realized that the tortures were not in vain and that the suffering they had endured for standing up for this cause became meaningful on August 15th. The enormous impact of August 15th in the prisons eliminated the corrosive effects of the previous pressures. Until then, there had been resistance, but it had worn out because of the great pressure. On August 15, everything changed. Already after July 14th, there was a significant change, and the struggle and belief were reinforced. A new period had begun in the prisons, both in terms of organization and resistance, but August 15th took this to a whole new level, and everyone gained new morale. It made the friends realize the importance and value of their resistance and suffering. This was a very crucial development.

On August 15, the role of the prisons changed. The prison resistance served as a bridge in the period between 1980 and 1984, when there was just very limited struggle on the outside. After the military coup in 1980, our party retreated. In this process, the prison resistance filled this gap and formed a bridge of resistance through July 14 and the death fast. August 15th had an important impact on the formation of this resistance. In addition, one of the most important effects of August 15th in prison was the failure of the state’s prison policies. The Turkish State aimed to intimidate and surrender those imprisoned, and then execute the leaders of this resistance. But when August 15th took place, even before, when they could not liquidate the movement but instead it became a peoples struggle, the situation radically changed. The guerrillas entered the country in 1983, and the Turkish state launched operations against the Medya Defense Zones⁹, such as Operation Sun and the operations in the Behdinan region. Because they could not crush the movement, and essentially because Rêber Apo made a great effort to recover the movement, the Turkish state started to carry out executions everywhere. They executed civilian and judicial prisoners. At this time, it was our movement that carried out the most armed actions against fascists, gangs, spies, and those who oppressed the people in Turkey. Before the military coup of September 12, 1980, for the first time in the mountains of Kurdistan after 1938, bigger weapons were used. At that time, in groups of ten, big weapons were used, not just pistols. These weapons were used for self-defense while they moved in the mountains. There were some clashes; gendarmes and soldiers were killed, and our movement carried out many actions against the torturing police officers. Before September 12, we were the movement that fought the most against the fascist groups, torturing policemen and colonialist Turkish soldiers. But while other organizations were executed, they could not execute us. The reason for this is that our organization backfired. If executions had been carried out after the August 15 breakthrough, we would have answered them. Instead of weakening the struggle, executions would have angered the people and strengthened the struggle. For this reason, although executions were carried out in all organizations, they did not execute us. We were struggling, and the August 15th breakthrough was realized. It prevented the executions and reduced the pressure in prison. Generally speaking, it prevented the neutralization of our movement. Therefore, the effects of August 15th in the prison provided great morale, and the old repression did not return. The mood of the friends who had been repressed and tortured really changed; even our gait changed.

Rêber Apo describes the August 15th breakthrough as the Kurdish resurrection. Looking at Kurdish culture, language, and literature today, what impact did August 15th have on this dimension? According to your movement, what kind of attitude is needed to preserve this impact?

Culture and art are the most basic sources of life for a people and a society. If a society lacks culture and art, it is a dead society. Before August 15th, in a way, Kurds were dying. Their hopes were dashed, their emotional ties were weakened, and their enthusiasm for life was broken. The Kurdish society had become a society that only lived from one day to another; it barely worked and fed itself and had little hope for life and the future. There can be no strong art or literature in such a society. Art and literature reveal emotion and hope. It reveals belief in the future and expectations of the future.

In this regard, the August 15 breakthrough yielded some very important results. Through it, Kurdish society regained hope. That’s why Rêber Apo used to say, “Hope is more valuable than anything else.” There is a Japanese proverb that says that if you lose your property, you have lost something, but if you lose hope, you have lost everything. Indeed, the Kurds had lost hope, but it was recreated on August 15. New emotions, excitement, and faith in the future came up again. Kurdish society was revitalized. The Kurdish people realized again that they are a nation, a society by themselves, that they can be liberated and democratized, and that they can create hope for the future.

The impact of August 15th in terms of emotions, hopes and values is enormous. The essence of human life is created through art, literature and culture. It is those that make life meaningful. But for art, literature and culture to emerge, there must be hope, there must be faith in the future, there must be factors that create change and dynamism in society. This is what the August 15th breakthrough created. It was an explosion of emotion, excitement, enthusiasm, and new belief in the future. People’s eyes shone; their outlook changed. And what followed it was an explosion in culture, art and literature. The Mesopotomanian Cultural Center was founded based on the developments that followed August 15. This in turn played an essential role in creating the values that were upheld in the later Serhildans¹⁰.

Music, literature, poetry, and so many other things were developed. Kurds started to live with a new enthusiasm. They became aware of life and started to live like Kurds. Previously, there had been a process, a period of running away from their Kurdishness. Kurdishness was not dead, but it seemed hopeless. In this respect, the Turkish State’s policy of genocide and turkification had a certain effect. The August 15th move created great social dynamism with the emotions, thoughts, and values it created, creating great developments in art and culture. Looking at the history of humanity, one can see that the periods when art and literature have developed the most are periods of great revolutions and struggles. The great French literature emerged during the period of enlightenment after the renaissance. Russian literature was mostly created by the dynamism of society both before and after the revolution; a new life emerged at that time. Aleksandr Pushkin’s novel ‘How to Live’, for example, reveals the new thoughts and feelings in Russian society, which later led to great developments. In this respect, Rêber Apo calling August 15 the Kurdish renaissance, the Kurdish resurrection, really hits the nail on the head. Rêber Apo revealed how emotions in Kurdish society were killed, broken and destroyed; how Kurds were moving away from a life of morale and hope. August 15th changed this situation and created a great change. Today, in order to prevent this transformation, the Turkish state is attacking, particularly literature, art, culture, and language. Because these are the factors that create a society. It is a life based on new, deepened emotions, in which actions are chosen in harmony with one’s own emotions. It is literature, art, and culture that enable us to live a meaningful life. That is why the Turkish State is now attacking the govend¹¹, Kurdish music and language and why it is not allowing concerts. Instead, it allows concerts that will serve its own policy of Kurdish genocide. We hear that some Kurdish artists attend concerts organized by this state; this is special warfare. We condemn this in the strongest possible terms. No Kurdish artist can put himself at the service of the state for such a policy. No Kurdish literature can be created on this basis. Those who act in this way show that they have no understanding of the meaning of art. They see art only as entertainment or as a way of making money. This is neither art nor artistry. If there really are artists who do this, they should definitely give it up. Otherwise, they will be cursed in Kurdish history.

The August 15 breakthrough marked the beginning of Kurdish guerrilla warfare. Today, thousands of male and female guerrillas are waging a historic resistance in many parts of Kurdistan. Murat Karayilan, commander of the headquarters of the NPG, has shared important information with the public about the extent of the war. What can you say about this ongoing war? What awaits us in the 41st year of the breakthrough?

First of all, I salute all HPG commanders and all fighters who are waging this great struggle. I also commemorate all the martyrs with great respect and gratitude. Indeed, our young comrades are waging a historic struggle. This is not just the resistance of a handful of people – of ten or fifty people. It is the resistance and value of a people. And they resist under the most difficult conditions. Our comrades who are currently fighting the war with the tactics of tunnel and mobile team warfare in the Medya Defense Zones are waging a historic and exemplary struggle. All Kurdish people should see them. These are our comrades, who deserve all kinds of respect.

Before talking about the resistance in the Medya Defense Zones, there has been a very important resistance in northern Kurdistan in this last period. Some crucial clashes have taken place, in which some very valuable friends were also martyred. In this regard, I commemorate with respect and gratitude all our friends and all our valuable comrades who were martyred in northern Kurdistan recently. Their determined struggle will enable society to continue its struggle with determination.

The resistance in the Medya Defense Zones has truly gained scale. Recently, there have been important actions taken by the Dogan Zinar Air Defense Unit. They dealt important blows to the enemy. The enemy has changed its strategy. So far, they have come overland from the north and have tried to advance step by step through battles. However, this has now changed thanks to the collaboration of the KDP. Now they are entering KDP areas via Habur, using the KDP’s paved roads, and trying to gather their forces in the south in order to encircle and attack the guerrillas. At the moment, they are attacking not only Zap, Metina, and Avashin but also Gare through Dereluk since they come on the roads from the south. They are currently attacking all over Bergare, carrying out airstrikes, and burning and destroying villages. In this respect, the war reached a new dimension after July 3, with the collaboration of the KDP. Now, in a way, Turkey is using southern Kurdistan as if it were its own region. In the past, it used to attack from the north, from the border, using its own roads and terrain. It used to come wave by wave, first sending airplanes, helicopters, and UCAVs. Now it is not like that. Now their strategy has turned into an attack that completely encircles the guerrilla areas of Metina, Zap, and Avashin from the south. On the other hand, as I pointed out, Gare has also been targeted. The villages in Bergare are currently being burned. Right now, there are fires everywhere in the Medya Defense Zones. The public should be aware that airplanes attack the region dozens of times every day. Every airplane attack means fire. Therefore, there is constant fire in the Medya Defense Zones. Kurdistan is on fire, and the KDP is watching. Such is their patriotism, such is their love for their homeland. Especially after spring, for six months until winter, every airplane attack means fire. Think about the fires in Turkey right now. The slightest thing causes fires. There are also fires in Greece. What would happen if nature were struck by airplanes dozens of times on a daily basis? This is the case in the Medya Defense Zones. There is an intense war. Not to forget also in Xakurke. There is war everywhere.

The Turkish state says it will take over everywhere. They are working on exactly this with the support of the KDP. The reason why they have been saying so much lately that they will do this is because they now consider southern Kurdistan to be an area governed not only by the KDP and the Iraqi government but also by itself. It sees it as their own areas of dominance, like Merdin (tr. Mardin) and Sert (tr. Sirt). That’s why they talk like that. But of course, the resistance against this continues and will continue. The guerrilla responds to the attacks of the Turkish State with appropriate tactics, tunnels, and mobile teams. Each tunnel is like a castle, and from there, mobile teams are constantly deploying and attacking. Another feature of the tunnels is that they dominate the area. The occupying Turkish soldiers cannot approach areas where there are tunnels. Thus, mobile teams mobilize and strike a blow against the enemy. Whereas the guerrillas used to only be able to attack in rainy weather, they have now learned to attack in all seasons, whether under rain or open skies. This war will continue. Because this resistance is the Kurdish people’s resistance to freedom. It is a war about existence or extinction. They are waging a war to destroy the Kurdish people. They are waging a war to genocide the Kurds. They neither recognize the existence of the Kurds nor the existence of the KDP. They currently collaborate with them for the single reason of using them against the PKK. In an environment where the PKK does not exist, the KDP is finished. There is nothing it can do. They want to destroy the Kurdish people with their nation-state understanding. They want to turn the whole of Kurdistan into an expansion area for the Turkish state. This is what the Turkish state is aiming for. All Kurds must be aware of this. The enmity of the Turkish state is not only against the Kurdish left and socialists. For the Turkish state, it does not matter what political thought the Kurds have. They are hostile to them in any way. The Turkish state’s enmity towards the Kurds has no political color. It is hostile to all Kurds simply because they are Kurds, because they have a Kurdish identity, and because they want to live their own identity and culture. Don’t fool yourself.

The resistance of the comrades will continue. I send my greetings to them. At the same time, our people, our intellectuals, and all Kurdish parties must express their solidarity more clearly. They cannot just stand by and make occasional statements. Regardless of whether they come from the north, east, south, or west of the country, all Kurdish parties must take responsibility and support this struggle. The people, particularly the youth and women, must give all kinds of support to this struggle. No one can say that because the guerrillas are fighting and resisting anyway, they themselves have no role to play. This is not a conflict of the guerrilla; it is about the survival of a people, and that concerns everyone. That’s why more concrete support for the struggle is necessary.

Looking at the recent Ankara visit and the agreement signed, it seems that Iraq, which has assumed a certain role in these invasion attacks, will continue this attitude and may even advance it further. What kind of dangers does the current Iraqi government expose Iraq and the Iraqi people to?

They have made an agreement, and it seems that they want to take it even further. It is mainly the policies of the KDP that have brought Iraq to this point. Turkey and the KDP together put pressure on Iraq in order to drag it into this war. The KDP was always trying to involve Iraq and the PUK in this. This is how it wants to achieve results. Now that they have dragged Iraq into the war, they are trying to expand this policy through the PUK. The KDP is such a power; everyone knows that. The KDP liquidates Kurdish organizations that it sees as rivals through the relations it has established with the colonialists, the enemies of the Kurds. For example, how did it expel the PUK from Hewler (Erbil)? It collaborated with Saddam. Saddam’s tanks and soldiers came, removed the members of the PUK from Hewler, and the KDP settled there. Now they are trying to do this with the help of the Turkish state. The KDP has wanted to liquidate the PUK from the very beginning. But then, when the PKK emerged on the stage of history and became a power, it wanted to focus on it first. They blackmailed Iraq, threatening that they would cooperate more with the Turkish state and cause problems for Iraq. Indeed, there is pressure and imposition from the Turkish state, but Iraq would not have come to this point if the KDP had not been involved. It was the KDP that wanted the closure of Tevgera Azadî the most. It was the KDP that had PADÊ shut down in Shengal (Sinjar). Again, it is the KDP that wants the Democratic Party in Iraq to be shut down. They inform the Turkish state and create pressure through it.

The Turkish state is now inside Iraq, and the Iraqi government approves it. The Iraqi foreign minister has gone to Turkey as the head of the delegation, then the foreign minister of the Kurdistan Regional Government has gone, and there were some other KDP members of the delegation. That is Fuat Hussein’s KDP policy. Why did Fuat Hussein go? Why did the foreign minister of the KDP go? They are clearly like advisors to the Iraqi government on “how to wage war against the PKK.” They are collaborating with the Turkish state. The current Iraqi government seems to have really poor knowledge and reading of history. It seems not to be aware of the reality of the Turkish state and makes politics on daily events. At the moment, the Turkish state uses blackmail, particularly regarding water. Now it is loosening this a little bit to give the Iraqi government a small success. This policy is definitely not in Iraq’s interest. The current government, Sudani and his deputies will regret maintaining these relations with Turkey. They will regret that they gave in to the blackmail of the KDP like this. How will Iraqi history remember them? It will not remember them in a good way. Not recognizing the reality of the Turkish state, submitting to its carrot and stick policy. The current Iraqi government has surrendered to this carrot-and-stick policy. They say that the economic sphere will be a bit more relaxed because of the relationship with Turkey, but this is just a sellout. To make this agreement with the Turkish state on the basis of finding some economic relief or opportunity means selling Iraq. In today’s world of capitalist modernity, there is too much daily and materialistic thinking. Popular, social, national, and long-term thinking is weak. This is the situation of the current Iraqi rulers. They lack historical consciousness; they decide on their politics based on daily developments. How can you declare the PKK an enemy, a banned organization? The former Prime Minister Haider Abadi and many Iraqi officials thanked the PKK for defeating ISIS. If ISIS had not been defeated, what would be the situation in Iraq now? In Rojava, North and East Syria, the PKK played a huge role in the defeat of ISIS. Many of its fighters were sent and martyred. This is how ISIS was defeated. They gave fifteen thousand martyrs in North and East Syria; in Rojava, tens of thousands were wounded in order to defeat ISIS. Who stopped ISIS in Shengal? You were going to be the cause of genocide; the PKK saved your honor. It saved Shengal from genocide, and it saved Iraq’s honor. Now you stand up and say that the PKK is a banned organization. Is this so unprincipled, so devoid of conscience, morality, and political ethics? Turkey will like it, and the and the KDP will like it. The KDP is blackmailing, supposedly to please the KDP. The more you please Turkey and the KDP, the more you sink. Pleasing them means sinking Iraq. What did Tayyip Erdogan say to Maliki when he was in power? Maliki had criticized Turkey a little bit, and Erdogan directly reacted, saying, “Who are you? Nobody takes you seriously. Iraq is still a country with countless problems. Who do you think takes you seriously in this condition?” He insulted the Iraqi Prime Minister. Now that he is laughing in your face, let’s see what he will say to you if you stand against Turkey and show an honorable stance. He is laughing in the faces of Iraqis for not daring to take an honorable stance. We leave them to history. They don’t realize what they are doing; they really lack a sense of history.

Let me be clear: if there was a Sunni government, it would not have surrendered so much to Turkey. Separately, right now the Sunnis are relying on Turkey to squeeze the current government; this is true. But let’s say if there was a Sunni government, they would not have surrendered to Turkey so much. They have a higher awareness of history. They know the Turkish state better. Because, in a way, Shiites have not been very involved in politics in the history of Iraq. They have always remained outside of political dominance and political activity. The Shiites have always been outside Iraqi politics, Iraqi social struggle, economic structure, and military structure. Therefore, it seems that their historical consciousness or political consciousness is really weak.

The Iraqi people and the political forces in Iraq must resist this. Also, the Kurdish people in southern Kurdistan should see the danger of the current policies, and the political parties should be aware of this too. They should oppose these agreements between Iraq and Turkey. All Kurdish political parties must oppose it. Those who do not live actually a kind of surrender. In this respect, the PUK is also under threat.

The Iraqis say that the Turks will receive training in Bashiqa. You are fooling yourselves. You have legitimized the Turkish occupation. Who will get Turkey out of there? Do they think they will? Tomorrow, they will say that we took this place by shedding blood. “It was already ours historically.” That’s what they say; they call it Misak-i Milli¹². Kirkuk, Mosul, and the north of Syria are part of Misak-i Milli. There is only one difference, of course, and it is important. When Misak-i Milli was accepted, there was no Kurdish denial. There was no Kurdish denial in the Ottoman Empire. These people are not like that; they are Kurdish deniers. Abdullah Cevdet, one of the founders of the Committee of Union and Progress and the founder of the philosophical basis of Kemalism, was a Kurd from Arapgirli. When the Kurdish Teali Society was founded, Abdullah Cevdet went and congratulated them. “You are doing very well. Kurds should also develop.” He says this because there was no Kurdish denial. When they were among the founders of the Committee of Union and Progress, they were in it because there was no Kurdish denial. But today, the current Turkish state is practicing Kurdish denial. There was nothing like this in the Ottoman Empire. This is a new situation. It is a situation that emerged after the Lausanne Treaty. In this respect, they are contradicting their own history.

The fascist Turkish state continues its genocidal war against the Kurdish people on the one hand and tries to suppress the opposition inside on the other. However, after the municipal elections, AKP-MHP fascism was in a very tight situation. Can the current attitude of the opposition be considered only as obstruction or pacifism?

It is important to know what the policy of the Turkish state is now. For example, the other day, a woman was arrested for giving a street interview. When anyone speaks out, when anyone opposes the AKP, they are arrested. Every day, there are political genocidal operations in Kurdistan. People are arrested only because they are Kurdish, because they defend their identity, and because they do politics in the HDP.

The opposition is confronted with a problem. If it does not realize this, it will not be able to implement meaningful policies and will not be able to achieve results. The reason why the AKP government is so hostile to democracy is its hostility towards the Kurds. Since it is pursuing a policy of liquidation and oppression against the Kurds, it is hostile to democracy. If it wants to stand up for democracy, for a struggle for democracy and oppose the anti-democratic stance of the AKP-MHP government, but does not have a consistent Kurdish policy, then it can only fail. Then its policy will simply be futile and meaningless. The opposition must realize this. The current government opposes democracy because the Kurds could benefit from it. This means that the reason for the hostility to democracy is the lack of a solution to the Kurdish question. They will have to produce a policy based on the solution of the Kurdish question. They will have to oppose the Kurdish policy of the AKP and MHP government. Only then can they wage a consistent struggle for democracy. To what extent do they recognize this reality and take a stance against the AKP and MHP?

Look at the newspapers and magazines of the opposition; there is nothing about the Kurdish question. Why? If they bring up the Kurdish question, the AKP and MHP government will be angry at them. It can’t be like this. They speak on TV and call themselves social democrats, but when the Kurdish question comes up, their eyes turn. They are no different from AKP and MHP supporters. This is not the struggle for democracy; it is fake. In this respect, all democratic forces, if they want to wage a true and consistent struggle for democracy, should be sensitive to the Kurdish question. They should take an open attitude towards the oppression of the Kurdish people. They should make it an important part of their agenda. It cannot be the fifth or sixth item on the agenda. Whoever says they oppose the AKP government should also oppose the Kurdish hostility that characterizes the AKP-MHP government’s policies. If you don’t put forward the right approach on the Kurdish issue, even if you oppose the AKP-MHP government, it has no political meaning and no result. In this respect, I don’t want to say too much. I emphasize that all opposition forces must have the right Kurdish policies if they struggle against the AKP-MHP or fascism. The right struggle for democracy can only be waged on this basis.

While Israel’s genocidal attacks against the Palestinian people continued, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas traveled to Turkey. He gave a speech at the Turkish Parliament. What can you say about what is happening in Palestine and Mahmoud Abbas?

Palestine is suffering great pain. We strongly condemn Israel’s current Palestinian policy. Currently, a great massacre that has reached the level of genocide is taking place. They don’t want to destroy Palestine. Mahmoud Abbas is one of the leaders of the PLO, and we respect their struggle. But expecting something from this AKP-MHP government and thinking that it supports the Palestinian struggle is a big mistake. We have taken part in the Palestinian struggle, and we gave martyrs. On the other hand, we have also received the contributions and support of the Palestinians. In this respect, there is a bond between us and the struggle of the Palestinian people. There is an emotional and historical bond. Mahmoud Abbas and everyone should be aware of this. It is the struggle waged by the leftist forces, as we have emphasized before, that has made the Palestinian question so influential in the world and that has made it embraced by the peoples of the world. It is the result of the leftist forces’ embrace of Palestine. So many people around the world have stood up for Palestine. In the late 1960s and 1970s, so many leftist and revolutionary forces from Turkey came to Palestine to support the Palestinian cause. It is precisely these forces that are being attacked the most by Erdogan and his entourage today. They are attacking the leftist forces that threw the American soldier into the sea. Now the AKP-MHP government is exploiting the Palestinian issue. I am not talking about Islamic circles outside of it, but Erdogan and the MHP are exploiting the struggle of the Palestinian people. They are trying to use the Palestinian struggle to cover up the Kurdish genocide and make people realize it more easily. Erdogan is not defending Palestine. He didn’t quit the trade immediately. He waited seven to eight months until he limited it. When a deputy from the Saadet Party was confronting them with this in parliament, AKP members attacked him; he fell and died of a heart attack. They still haven’t quit trading.

Mahmoud Abbas should not have made himself a tool of a fascist power like the AKP-MHP. Supposedly, it was in retaliation for Netanyahu’s speech in the US. This is not how it works. The Palestinians cannot sympathize with a government that commits genocide against the Kurds. They cannot legitimize and normalize it. We want to emphasize this one more time. Turkey has historically had the best relations with Israel. Turkey was the first to recognize Israel in the Middle East. In fact, they wanted to improve it even before the October 7 incident. Why? They were saying that if they improve their relations with Israel, they will get the support of Europe and the US on the Kurdish genocide. They have always had good relations with Israel in order to get the support of the US and Europe for the Kurdish genocide. Right now, it is just to keep its own power alive because it is very squeezed. The Saadet Party, Yeniden Refah, and the democratic force were confronting them, so they were finally forced to cut down their trade to a certain point. They started to act anti-israelian to keep their own power alive.

The Palestinian people and the Palestinian political forces should not be a tool for such a genocidal state and power. They can address the people of Turkey. They can be in contact with the people of Turkey and the political forces in Turkey. But they should not become a cover for this policy of such a government. I call on Palestinians to be sensitive on this issue.

Everything in Turkey is shaped by the politics of the government. Sports is one of these fields. The 2024 Paris Olympics were held, and even though Turkey participated with more than a hundred athletes, it returned without a single gold medal. There were serious discussions on the reasons for this situation. How do you address this situation?

Actually, this is a result that reveals what the AKP-MHP government is. The AKP-MHP government has rotted everything in Turkey. It has rotted morality, conscience, culture, art, and it has even rotted sports. Sport is not like it has been before. It has ceased to be a competition. Every country wants to compete, wants its athletes to win. This is natural. But the AKP-MHP government has turned it into a kind of war. They present every victory as a battle won in a war, immediately afterwards in their media they always draw a direct parallel and say that they will also be successful in the fight against the Kurds. In Turkey, everything, be it politics, art, sport or anything else, has been put at the service of special warfare. This also applies to soccer, for example, which has played an important role in their concept of special warfare, especially since the 1990s.

Now one really feels sorry for those athletes. They put in so much effort, they work, and they are under stress. When they lose, they will be called traitors; that is why they have to win. For them, it is like a war; when you lose, it’s a big defeat. They are not comfortable. They are leading them to a war, not a race. That is, at the same time, also the reason why they lose. They cannot think clearly. They compete in anxiety and lose. This was the case during the AKP rule, especially in the last twenty years. In this environment of oppression, sports is being turned into a war, a special war, a part of the war against the Kurdish people.

The sports minister is blaming the federation for the lack of success, while the government is responsible. They are really shameless. They are all his men anyway. The AKP doesn’t even hire workers from others anymore. Even when it hires civil servants, it hires only those who are loyal to it. The federations are all under their orders, but he still blames them. He is the one to blame; it is the AKP’s MHP government and its ministers who have brought sports to this state. It is the chauvinism they have built on this sport. Those athletes give their labor; they are wasted. The athletes take care of their lives, give their lives, and everything, but they are used like this. They are all pressured to win a war. War against the world. If you put such a burden on those young people, they cannot even get a bronze medal when they could get a gold medal with that psychology. In this respect, the sports minister is responsible, not the federation. This government is responsible. The sports policy of this government in Turkey should be examined and criticized on this occasion. It must be removed from being an instrument of this special war.

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