our interviews

In view of the current period, we would first of all like to talk about the current celebrations for this year’s Newroz. How have you experienced this year’s Newroz so far? What can or would you like to tell us about it?

To begin with, I would like to congratulate our people, our international friends, and particularly Rêber Apo¹ on the occasion of Newroz. Also, with great respect and gratitude, I commemorate all the martyrs of Newroz by honoring the comrades Mazlum Dogan and Zekiye Alkan.

This year saw one of the most glorious Newroz celebrations of all time. People of all ages and from all ethnicities took to the parks, streets, and squares to celebrate Newroz. The pictures showed a sea of people – millions were celebrating with great enthusiasm both in the four parts of Kurdistan and abroad. We all felt great joy and excitement about this year’s Newroz. And of course, what made this year’s Newroz so enthusiastic, so exciting, and so glorious was Rêber Apo’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. The meetings with Rêber Apo, receiving his greetings, learning his views, and listening to his call for freedom created great joy and excitement. Through the Newroz celebrations, the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ by our leader was embraced and greeted by millions in an impressive way. The people clearly expressed that Rêber Apo represents their political will and chanted that they see Rêber Apo’s freedom as their own freedom. In a sense, the call was like a referendum, a referendum for Rêber Apo’s freedom, and millions answered it; millions demanded the physical freedom of Rêber Apo.

It was the Newroz of Rêber Apo’s physical freedom. It was the Newroz of ‘Peace and Democratic Society’. And it was celebrated by millions enthusiastically, gloriously, and magnificently. In this sense, it was a Newroz in which devotion, love, respect, and trust in Rêber Apo were experienced at a peaking level. Our people and our international friends expressed their great, deep love, respect, and devotion, as well as their great trust and deep confidence in Rêber Apo in an impressive way during this Newroz. This is of great significance.

The peak of this, particularly regarding northern Kurdistan, was the celebrations in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir). Over one million people gathered there to celebrate together. It was literally a sea of people. It was very impressive. And in this celebration, it was the moment when Rêber Apo’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ was read that summed all that up.

This year’s Newroz was different. It should be the guideline for all Newrozes to come. In all districts, provinces, regions, and cities of Turkey, and generally spoken in all places where Kurds live, Newroz was celebrated in a magnificent and enthusiastic way. This should be sustained. It is very important, and Amed was the peak of this. But not only there; also the celebrations in Wan (tr. Van) were also spectacular, as they were in Elih (tr. Batman) and Sert (tr. Siirt). In fact, all of this year’s celebrations were spectacular in their very own way. All of them were marked by the demand for the immediate physical freedom of Rêber Apo and were marked by the embracement of the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’.

Again, the celebrations this year in eastern Kurdistan were also spectacular. The people are talking about an “extraordinary Newroz”, and it indeed was extraordinary. The people turned all of eastern Kurdistan into an area of celebrating Newroz. It was breathtaking. The physical freedom of Rêber Apo, freedom of the Kurds, freedom of Kurdistan, and freedom of and democracy for Iran were the hallmarks of these Newrozes.

Same accounts for Rojava and North and East Syria. After the celebrations were postponed by a few days due to the massacre committed by the Turkish state in Kobanê, there were also enthusiastic celebrations in every city. Here, too, the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and the call for ‘Peace and Democratic Society’ were the hallmarks. Millions claimed the freedom of Rêber Apo in Rojava, in all parts of Kurdistan, and abroad. This was very important, very meaningful.

This year’s Newroz had decisive political messages – the physical freedom of Rêber Apo, his call, and the call for unity in the sense of the democratic nation. Wherever Newroz was celebrated, these topics were high on the agenda. On this issue, the people put forward their demands and expectations in a strong way. Therefore, one can underline that this year’s Newroz strengthened the unity, consciousness, and spirit of the Kurds in the sense of the democratic nation.

Newroz is an expression of resistance, an expression of rebellion against oppression and for freedom. That is why it is so important in Kurdistan and why it is celebrated here with so much enthusiasm and joy. I would like to take this opportunity once again to congratulate everyone, especially the comrades who are at this very moment resisting on the mountains and in the prisons, on this year’s Newroz.

Let’s move on to the process initiated by peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan. Since the call he made already a a few weeks have passed, but not much has changed in terms of the Turkish state’s rapprochement or the situation of Ocalan himself. How do you assess this?

Rêber Apo has been uninterruptedly waging the struggle for the democratization of Turkey, for a democratic republic and a democratic Turkey on the basis of the democratic solution of the Kurdish question for 50 years, and for the last 26 years, he has been conducting this fierce struggle under the conditions of isolation and torture in Imrali. With his latest ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’, Rêber Apo took a big step for the democratization of Turkey and the democratic solution of the Kurdish question. It is a decisive call for Kurdistan, for Kurds, for all the peoples of Turkey, for the oppressed, and particularly for us women. The attitude and effort developed by Rêber Apo are very valuable. But it is the state that is unserious. This government has approached this process unseriously and insincerely. For example, Yilmaz Tunc, the Minister of Justice, has been making statements that are completely incompatible with the spirit and character of these developments. But the problem is not only the statements but also the practice. The government, the state, has not taken any steps.

In the week of the call, the so-called ‘Right to Hope’ was supposed to be put into action immediately. This process was supposed to run in parallel, intertwined. But this was not done. For the ‘Right to Hope’ to come into effect, legislative changes are needed. A commission in the Parliament, legal regulations, and legal amendments are essential and necessary. But this was not done. There has been no change in the conditions of Rêber Apo. The isolation continues in Imrali. The isolation should have been completely lifted in the course of the call. Through the ‘Right to Hope’, Rêber Apo should have regained his physical freedom, and afterwards, he was supposed to be able to communicate directly with his movement and the PKK leadership. It is necessary for them to set the date of the congress together, to set the agenda together. Rêber Apo himself must direct, guide, and participate in the congress of the PKK. Rêber Apo is the founding leader of the PKK; he has to play a crucial role in the dissolution of the PKK, has to be directly involved, and has to directly manage and direct this congress. But all of this has not been ensured. There was no communication with Rêber Apo after the call. Applications of the family and lawyers to meet with Rêber Apo were turned down.

As I pointed out before and want to highlight again, the setting of the agenda of the congress, its convening, and its practical guidance must be carried out by Rêber Apo together with the PKK administration. He has to run it directly. Therefore, Rêber Apo must be able to be in contact with everyone he wants.

There are many journalists, politicians, academics, writers, civil society organizations, lawyers, and so on that want to meet and discuss with Rêber Apo. Everyone who wanted to should be enabled to go to Rêber Apo and meet with him. Rêber Apo must be able to meet and communicate with anyone he wants. The status of Imrali has to change completely. This system, the Imrali system, the system of torture and isolation, has to be completely abolished and dismantled. Rêber Apo had to regain his physical freedom. This is what we mean by free working and living conditions. It is the physical freedom of the Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo has to be able to have meetings, relations, and communication with all the circles he wants, including and especially with his organization. This has to be ensured. But it is not done. Instead, the isolation continues. Almost four weeks have passed since February 27th, and there is still no change, there is no communication, and there is no information.

The leadership of the PKK had issued a statement. Without Rêber Apo, without him being able to directly intervene, the PKK congress cannot convene, make decisions, dissolve itself, or lay down arms. There is nothing debatable about this. Only Rêber Apo can develop this process. The leader of the peace and democratic society process is Rêber Apo. Rêber Apo develops, conducts, manages, and directs the process of democratic transformation and restructuring. No one else can develop that will, that power, that initiative.

Now the Minister of Justice says that there would be no such thing as the ‘Right to Hope’ in the legislation. Is this legislation a verse of the Quran? When one wants to have a serious and sincere process, one needs to be ready to make changes in the legislation. Doing so would be the work of two, maybe three days. We have researched and investigated; those in the know have examined it and informed us. If they wanted to, that legislation could be changed in a couple of days. Those amendments to the law could be made; the ‘Right to Hope’ could be implemented easily. It is not a job that cannot be done. Legislation can change. But they don’t want to.

Why did we insist on Rêber Apo being able to read his call and it being spread as a video message? Because it was a test. It was to test the government, the state, to see how serious it is. If it was serious, it should not have objected or prevented a video message. It’s about developing a historic, sincere process to solve a hundred-year-old problem; if it doesn’t even allow a video message through, where’s the seriousness in that? This shows its lack of seriousness and sincerity. Actually, its mask has fallen. By blocking the video message, its mask fell, and its true face was seen. Now there are people coming up claiming things like that the ‘Right to Hope’ is not in the legislation. Well, change the legislation. If you are serious, you change that legislation. You change the law and implement the ‘Right to Hope’. That is a work of a couple of days only. This process cannot go on without legal and juristical guarantees and assurances. As it is, tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow, they may arrest the entire seven-person delegation that went to Imrali. Including the DEM co-chairs. Regarding this state and this government, there is no guarantee for anything. There are no legal guarantees. Everything is being made almost illegally. There is no guarantee for this process. But this process definitely needs to have a legal and juristic guarantee. Laws need to be passed on this issue. Rêber Apo said at the very beginning of the process that a joint commission in the parliament with the participation of all parties in power, all opposition, and ruling parties should be established. This commission should make legal arrangements. The legal and juristic guarantee of this process should be established. That is what he demanded, but nothing has happened. On the contrary, all kinds of attacks are being launched to prevent this ground from being formed.

In order to resolve the Kurdish question not on the basis of armed struggle but through democratic politics and legal means, the conditions for this must be created. The environment and ground for this must be created. Without this, how will the PKK lay down its arms? The basic necessity for the PKK to lay down its arms is the ensuring of the conditions of democratic politics and the legal means. Without this, the PKK cannot lay down its arms or dissolve itself. This is fully clear. This is what the content of the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ is all about.

I also want to highlight that the ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ is a joint agreement. It is a joint agreement with the state delegation. No one draws attention to this fact, but I personally find it very important. The state has accepted the content of this call. There is a common consensus in this sense. What is the content and meaning of this call? This call is a call for a democratic republic. This call is a call for democratic reconciliation. It is a call for the Kurdish question to be solved through democratic politics and law. The state said that it accepts this, and a common consensus was reached, and so an according practice must develop. The state has to take concrete steps and has to create the legal and juristic basis for this. The parliament has to work hard for it. Rêber Apo has to regain his physical freedom immediately; he has to be enabled to enter into relations and communication with his organization and everyone else that he likes. They must show sincerity and stop its attacks. But instead, they deny all of this. Some even dare to say that Rêber Apo would have said that there would be no conditions attached to the call. It seems like they have not understood anything from that call. They need to sit down and read that call forty times until they understand what it means. The call itself is the manifesto to solve the Kurdish question on the basis of democratic politics and law. Solving the Kurdish question based on local autonomy is the democratization of Turkey. By giving your consent, you have accepted that call. You have to fulfill your responsibilities. You have to take the according, sincere steps.

It’s such a cheap approach on their part. They’re basically saying, “There’s a call; you have to call a congress immediately and dissolve there and then lay down your arms.” As if… Do they really think people are that stupid? Isn’t it enough what they have done to the Kurdish people over the past century? Do they really think that the Kurds have learned nothing from all the conspiracies, games, and tricks that have been played against them? There is such a thing as social memory and consciousness. If they continue on this path, if they continue to insist on their approach, then the people will expose them. They will point their fingers at them, say that all this is just political maneuvering, and show that the state has no sincere intention to solve the Kurdish question in a democratic, peaceful way.

The only concern of the state seems to be to eliminate and liquidate all the values that the Kurds have created through fifty years of struggle – all the values of democracy and freedom – to continue the policy of genocide. It insists on bringing this to a conclusion. There are deep suspicions. They really have been there from the beginning. But Rêber Apo is waging a very strong struggle, knowing this reality of the state. He wants to develop a process in favor of the Kurdish people, the peoples, and the society in Turkey, in favor of women, and he really wants to bring it to a conclusion.

Of course, it is necessary to continue the struggle. Especially, it is necessary to further strengthen the global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo. That is a conclusion that must be drawn from this process. Taking into account Rêber Apo’s call, that is to say, with the perspective of physical freedom for Rêber Apo and democratic society, it is necessary to carry out this campaign successfully and bring it to a conclusion.

It has now been several weeks since the PKK declared a unilateral ceasefire. However, the Turkish state has not followed this step; on the contrary, we are receiving reports that the attacks by the Turkish army are intensifying again. Can you confirm this?

The attacks against the freedom movement have never ceased. Since the statement of the leadership of the PKK on March 1, the declaration of a ceasefire, the state continued its attacks uninterruptedly. The press center of the HPG regularly publishes balance sheets, and they show that the attacks with heavy weaponry on the guerrilla are intensifying. Chemical weapons and phosphorous bombs were used again since the declaration. The Turkish state continued to use all kinds of banned weapons and continued to commit war crimes. In this sense, the truth of the matter is that in this situation, in the face of these attacks, the ceasefire declared by the PKK does not make much sense. Yashar Guler has made a statement and said that they do not accept the ceasefire. There are some circles that voiced the same mentality. If the PKK has declared a ceasefire, the state should follow this step. There should be a bilateral ceasefire in order for this process to develop. This would be a goodwill approach. It would also be a measure, an indicator in terms of credibility, sincerity, and seriousness.

According to Yashar Guler and the Turkish state and government, they are not waging a war. They are waging a struggle against terrorism. Therefore, since there is no war, there can be no ceasefire. This is how their logic works; this is their point of view. There has been a fierce war for 41 years. Tens of thousands of people have lost their lives, and all economic resources of Turkey have collapsed in this war. More than four trillion dollars went into this war. The economy collapsed, the state collapsed, and society collapsed. Yet he still denies that there is war. Every day fighter jets are bombing, UAVs and UCAVs are constantly in the air, tanks and artillery are constantly firing, chemical weapons, phosphorus bombs, and tactical nuclear weapons are used by them, and still he doesn’t want to speak about war.

The friends have said that Guler has complexes; that may be true, but if so, it is only a secondary aspect. What this attitude essentially feeds on is the genocidal mentality, the backward anti-Kurdish mentality. It is a mentality that makes people close their eyes in regard to such a destructive war, with such a heavy cost. This is the stance and mentality of this state. The war continues, and so does the struggle and resistance of our comrades.

In connection with the attacks by the Turkish state that you have now mentioned, the government’s attacks against the opposition have also increased and the CHP, for example, is also increasingly in the focus of repression. How do you put this into context?

The AKP-MHP government is worried about its own life. It is worried about its own power. In order to maintain and sustain its power, it is turning towards all opposition groups in a reckless manner. There is no law, no morality, no principle, and no conscience that they follow. It has been waging a war of genocide and fascism in Kurdistan for dozens of years. And as we have always said, as long as there is fascism in Kurdistan, there will be no democracy in Turkey. If there is a war of genocide in Kurdistan, there will be no law, democracy, or justice in Turkey. We make constant calls to the society in Turkey, to the opposition in Turkey – the democratic forces of Turkey are involved in this struggle with us – and to many political circles. And we were right.

Now, fascism and oppression in Kurdistan have spread all over Turkey. There can be no democracy and peace in Kurdistan while there is this oppression and fascism in Turkey as well, and no process of peace and democratic society can develop like this. Neither in Kurdistan nor in Turkey. If there is fascism in Amed, there will be fascism in Istanbul, and there will be fascism in Ankara. If there is fascism in Istanbul, there will be fascism in Amed, Colemerg (tr. Hakkari), and Dersim (tr. Tunceli). This is the way it is.

The force in charge are weak. It is afraid of a total collapse. Particularly Erdogan is afraid of losing his power. Therefore, he attacks everyone he sees as a force, as a rival, as an alternative. He only focuses on crushing, destroying and liquidating.

Before these attacks on the CHP, trustees were appointed to many municipalities in Kurdistan, for example, in Merdin (tr. Mardin), Elih, Wan, Dersim, Xelfeti (tr. Halfeti), and many further districts. Now it also hit the CHP. Esenyurt was usurped, as were other places too. Now the government has targeted the Istanbul Metropolitan Municipality. But not only in regard to the CPH; there is an intense attack on the entire opposition. In fact, there is a political coup d’état going on in Turkey right now. Now, how should the process of peace and democratic society develop in a place where there are so many attacks, where the opposition is under such a massive attack, where there is an attempt to liquidate and sabotage it?

Since this process came on the agenda, the DEM Party’s Imrali delegation has been working intensively. It went to all parties and held meetings. It spread the messages and perspectives from Rêber Apo. These parties made statements and said that they embrace this process. They said they would do whatever they could. For the first time in its history, the CHP showed such a courageous attitude. They evaluated it as Rêber Apo and the government and the state. CHP said that it stands by and supports this joint initiative. It said that it would provide all kinds of support. It sent this message to all parties. Then it put a democratization package on its agenda. It said that the Kurdish question could only be solved in parliament. And it said it would establish a commission in parliament. It took a serious stance against the trustee policy and stood in solidarity with the DEM Party. As a result, the attacks turned against them as well. One of the main justifications for these attacks is targeting the so-called urban reconciliation. However, urban reconciliation is a process that will support, nourish, and strengthen this process the most, a process that supports the process for peace and democratic society. Urban reconciliation expresses peace and brotherhood and unity of Kurds and Turks. Now, if one is so hostile to the urban consensus and attacks it, how will he be able to develop Kurdish and Turkish brotherhood, peace, and a democratic solution process? This can’t work out. That is why the process is currently blocked, why the isolation continues, and why there are so many attacks.

One of the parties that could contribute the most to this process is the CHP. CHP is the founding party of this state. It is one of the parties that supported this process most strongly. It said it would support this process, as long as it was serious and transparent, as the founding party of the Republic. It said that this issue should be solved in the parliament.

Rêber Apo also pointed to the parliament and said that a commission should be established there. He pointed out that a legal basis must be created and that thereby a solution can be reached in parliament. The address of democratic politics and law is the parliament, society, and all its components. But if one looks at how the government is acting now, how it is taking action against any form of opposition, then it quickly becomes clear that such a path is not possible with it. There is a lack of seriousness and sincerity. They proclaimed on the first day that they would “strengthen the internal front”. We can only carry out this process together, with the participation of everyone. The solution of the Kurdish question, the problem of democratization in Turkey, is only possible with the participation of everyone. First and foremost, the opposition. And now the government is trying to liquidate the entire opposition. They are destroying the ground that has been laid for a solution. The current developments reveal the stance and attitude of this government.

There must be no misunderstandings, no room left for hesitation. In the face of the ongoing fascist attacks, Turkish society, Kurdish society, the opposition, and all democratic forces, and among them particularly the women and the youth, must develop a common attitude and wage a common struggle. Only in this way can these attacks be repelled. This AKP-MHP government under Erdogan is trying to secure and maintain its power by crushing, liquidating, and breaking the will of all opposition. This has been clearly revealed. The mask of this government has completely fallen. The truth has been revealed. The king is naked. No one should have any hesitation about this. How can a process possibly be carried out in such an environment? Fascism is rampant. There is a massive attack against everyone. How will the Kurdish question be solved in such an environment? The grounds of democratic politics and law are being eliminated by the government.

Erdogan is a demagogue. He talks about entering the European Union; he talks about his candidacy… You don’t apply your own constitution, you don’t apply your own law, you don’t apply the law of the European Union, international conventions, or the decisions of the ECHR. How do you dare talking about joining the European Union? Who are you fooling? He is trying to fool Europe. The economy is not declining any more, it has collapsed. Erdogan is trying to attract investment to Turkey by deceiving. Turkey is collapsing. Outwardly, he is trying to present himself as being interested in peace and democracy with the Kurds. Does he want to achieve this peace with the Kurds by crushing the entire opposition? Does he want to achieve peace with chemical weapons and phosphorus bombs? Does he want to achieve peace by massacring an entire family in Kobane? Who is fooled by his demagogy?

A common struggle against fascism is necessary. The entire opposition needs to wage a strong joint struggle against fascism. There must be no fragmentation, which is the policy that the government has pursued from the beginning. Destroying, fragmenting, and preventing the opposition from coming together, and through that keeping itself alive. One must not fall for this game.

As you are speaking about Turkish fascism and nationalism, there were also some reports now in regard to Newroz that Erdogan wanted to celebrate his own Newroz. How is it to be understood?

Newroz originated in Mesopotamia, with its center being Kurdistan. This culture spread to many geographies. Today, Newroz is celebrated by peoples in Asia Minor and the Caucasus, even Turkmens, Kyrgyz, Kazakhs, Tajiks, Persians, and Azeris. It is even said that some peoples in the Balkans celebrate it. The meaning of it for the Kurds still is different. For them, it is a symbol of resistance and struggle. It is the revolt of the oppressed against the oppressor, against oppression. It expresses the rebellion of the blacksmith Kawa with the people. And until today, it has been celebrated in this geography for 2725 years. This is the meaning of Newroz in Kurdistan, while in other geographies, it is celebrated as a welcome to spring, a holiday, a spring festival.

What Erdogan is doing right now, and what we know from many rulers like Demirel, for example, is that he is trying to appropriate this tradition for himself in order to rewrite this culture. They held various official celebrations, and lit small fires. They wanted to turn Newroz into a “Turkish Newroz”. They wanted to put into service of the state. They want to take it out of society’s hands, rob it of its values, detach it from the spirit of struggle and resistance, detach it from its culture and tradition, and push it out of the public sphere into rented private halls. They want to assimilate it and put into service of Turkishness. They try to handle it with such a racist, nationalist understanding. This again is part of their genocide policies against the Kurds.

Finally, we would like to talk briefly about the developments in Syria. What can you tell us about this in brief?

As long as the Turkish state has its hands in Syria, the war will not stop, and the chaos will not disappear. Turkey is the biggest obstacle to the democratization of Syria. It is trying to spread the fascism from Turkey to the whole Middle East. It is trying to develop a monist, fascist, sectarian, religious, and administrative system in Syria. The Turkish state is the enemy of the people of society, of women, and of culture.

The most recent massacre of Alevis was a genocide. It deeply affected and saddened us. And it is Turkey that is behind this massacre, this genocide. They engage in such warmongering and war rhetoric. They even admitted that they took part in the massacre. From the very first day, they put all the SNA forces affiliated with it into action. Many massacres were committed by those paramilitary forces loyal to Turkey. Turkey is responsible for the massacre of thousands of Alevis. There is information that Turkey attacked some villages with helicopters, launched airstrikes, and used UCAVs. There is evidence for this. They admit that Damascus would never have been able to get control if it wasn’t for Turkey. They are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Turkey must be tried. Turkey played a role in the massacre and genocide of Alawites.

There also still is a continuous attack on North and East Syria. These attacks have never ended. In Kobane, a whole family was massacred. It was a war crime, a crime against humanity. Turkey has been hitting people’s houses and public places in service for society for years. These are all war crimes, crimes against humanity, and part of their genocide. They strike wheat silos, electricity distribution centers, and water facilities. It is hitting the crucial resources of society and massacring many civilians. This state, this government, must be held accountable for this.

There was an agreement in Damascus, and a draft constitution was put forward. One must clearly stress that at the moment, under the guidance and influence of Turkey with this mindset, with this mentality, there cannot be a democratic government in Damascus. What was published is an anti-woman, anti-society, anti-peoples constitution. This can never be accepted. And there already have been strong protests, clearly expressing this stance. It is necessary to struggle for a democratic Syria. A democratic Syria, a democratic Syrian constitution, is the only guarantee for a free co-existence of all peoples, cultures, and beliefs in Syria. It is the guarantee of a free and democratic life. Otherwise, neither the war in Syria will end nor the chaos will stop. The prerequisite for this is for Turkey – as I said at the beginning – to take its hands off Syria. Turkey is the source of all these problems. It is the biggest obstacle to the democratization of Syria. A strong struggle is needed against this.

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