our interviews

How do you assess the current atmosphere and situation in Turkey at a social and state level in view of the ongoing discussions regarding the possible development of a democratic process towards a solution to the Kurdish question? And also in this context, what do you think of all the demands that are being made of the peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan, who is currently expected to make calls in various directions?

After the delegation of the DEM Party went to Imrali, it made important efforts to share the messages and proposals of Rêber Apo¹ with the parliamentary parties. And the statements that resulted out of those efforts and meetings were positive and affirmative. There has been a positive atmosphere in Turkey among Kurds, Turkish society, and all democratic forces. An optimistic atmosphere that a democratic solution to the Kurdish question was created, a hope was created that a meaningful and honorable peace process would develop, that this genocidal war would end.

However, the government has not developed an approach that nourishes and strengthens this atmosphere, that supports these initiatives of Rêber Apo, that strengthens these optimistic feelings and thoughts of the Kurdish people, the democratic public opinion, and the people in general. So far, there has not been any concrete step. The main aspect that is necessary for the development of the process, for the democratic solution of the Kurdish question, for the democratization of Turkey, and for the end of this war is, of course, the lifting of the isolation. The conditions for Rêber Apo’s safety, health, free living, and working conditions must be created. Without these conditions, it is not possible for Rêber Apo to play his role, to work, to work freely, to make calls to the society, or to send messages to the Kurds. For us these always remain the main questions: Have the conditions of Rêber Apo changed? Has the isolation been lifted so that he can freely address the public, address the Kurds, and convey his views to the outside world? Can he communicate with whomever he wants – his lawyers, his family, politicians, various political circles that want to meet, civil society organizations, democratic mass organizations, and so on? And right now, the answer to all these still is no. So can Rêber Apo make a call under these conditions of total isolation? Can any call that is being made under such conditions of total isolation and harsh torture really have validity? It cannot be possible. How can a call be expected from Rêber Apo, and how can he be asked and expected to address the public openly while being held hostage under such circumstances?

There is no comparison worldwide and historically for his situation. How was, for example, Mandela enabled to play his role? How did the solution and peace process in South Africa develop? It happened by changing Mandela’s conditions. Mandela was given free living and working conditions. He was able to interact, communicate, meet, discuss, share his thoughts, make his calls, and convey his messages to everyone without restriction. Everything in South Africa developed after the conditions of isolation were lifted. A very strict isolation is being imposed on Rêber Apo. For more than 25 years without interruption, the absolute isolation, the system of torture and isolation against Rêber Apo, has been maintained, and now he is expected to make calls and change the situation without these conditions changing, only in the course of one or two meetings. These expectations are unwarranted and inappropriate. In order for Rêber Apo to work freely, share messages, and make calls, the isolation must be lifted immediately. The conditions for Rêber Apo’s health, safety, and free life must be ensured. And it is not about a temporary situation, but about it being permanent. Laws must be passed in parliament to formalize this. This is how an end must be set to the isolation.

More than 25 years have passed. According to international law, the ECHR, and the international convention on human rights, Rêber Apo has the right to exercise the so-called ‘Right to Hope’. The isolation must be lifted, Rêber Apo must be released, and he must be enabled to work freely and live physically free. The Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe has taken a decision in this direction. It has given Turkey one year to make legal changes and to set this in praxis. This was a crucial result of the struggle that was developed in the course of the global freedom campaign aiming for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo and the democratic solution of the Kurdish question.

Right now, everything is being demanded of Rêber Apo without him being granted any of it and without him being able to exercise his rights. This is not an acceptable situation. Rêber Apo’s most basic legal right cannot be a subject of bargaining. Parliament must now act legislatively and ensure that Rêber Apo can exercise his ‘Right to Hope’ before it demands anything from him. Isolation is a crime against humanity. It is a violation of law. At the moment, Turkey, with this isolation system, is trampling on international law and the international conventions to which it is a signatory. This is a crime against humanity and must end immediately. Rêber Apo’s most basic legal right cannot be negotiated. Therefore, the parliament must convene immediately and pass a law. It needs to make legal arrangements and create the conditions for Rêber Apo’s free life and work. Only like this will the initiatives of Rêber Apo find a result and reach a conclusion.

The struggle for this needs to be waged strongly. It is obvious that the current AKP government is trying very hard to sabotage and provoke these initiatives. At the moment, for example, a very serious concern and suspicion about the practices and policies of the current government is being discussed both among Kurds and in many democratic circles in Turkey. Does the AKP really want to create this kind of atmosphere and climate by paving the way for these talks? The global freedom campaign, the guerrilla struggle, and the people’s resistance have put a serious strain on this government. It is facing serious pressure and blockage at home and abroad. The general geopolitical developments in the region have added to this. It has created a serious state of anxiety about falling from power and panic in the Turkish state and the current government. Various possible effective actions, actions of the guerrilla in this process, will accelerate this collapse and make it more difficult. Is the government trying to weaken this through its approach?

During this phase, the government is struggling with severe setbacks and is working hard to cover this up. The ruling media is waging an intense psychological special war, trying to deceive everyone. Every day they publish headlines like: ‘The PKK Is Finished’, ‘The Kurds Will Surrender’ or ’We Will Bury Them With Their Arms’. With this kind of propaganda, the government is trying to cover up its own failure. It tries to create a perception as if it has won, as if the PKK has been defeated, as if the Kurds have been defeated, and is trying to regain power.

On the other hand, it seems like they are trying to create such a perception in order to pit the opposition against the Kurds, to deepen the existing and create even more contradictions and conflicts, to deepen polarization. They are creating confusion on this issue and developing concerns and suspicions among the opposition within the system. They are thereby trying to disrupt the intra-system opposition, especially the rapprochement between the CHP and the DEM Party, the rapprochement at the grassroots, the alliance against the forceful appointments of trustees to municipalities that had been elected by the people, and furthermore. They are developing a process with the aim of completely fragmenting the opposition, pitting them against each other, and completely isolating the Kurds and the forces of democracy. This approach and attitude are based on turning especially the secular nationalist section against the Kurds. And while they are working on this, they uninterruptedly continue their genocidal attacks with all intensity.

The government is currently in a stance and attitude that do not inspire confidence, that create confusion, and that do not create credibility or trust with its approaches, policies, and practices. And the ruling media is also completely following the government. Its special, and psychological warfare is very intense.

Of course, the ongoing discussions have a meaning. They should not be underestimated at all. But in the current situation, the AKP government feeds on war. It is provoking war wherever it can. The current government doesn’t want the war to end, neither does it want the Kurdish question to be solved on a democratic basis. Because if the Kurdish question is solved on a democratic basis, the war will end. This government feeds on war, chaos, and crisis. It feeds on polarization and enmity. If the Kurdish question is solved on a democratic basis and Turkey is democratized, there will be no more war, no more polarization, no more injustice, no more problems of democracy, no more problems of justice, and no more lawlessness. The sources it feeds on will dry up. Since it has built its entire policy on war, crisis, and chaos, it thinks that it will fall when these are gone, it thinks it will end. That’s why it is constantly warmongering. It is Kurdish-hostile and continues its attacks everywhere. There are countless people arrested every day, and the genocidal war and occupation against particularly Rojava and southern Kurdistan never loosened. It is constantly deepening the war, and particularly the special psychological warfare.

And this is no longer limited to the Kurds. The government is attacking all democratic forces in Turkey, and it also started to attack the liberal forces, the opposition within the system, and anyone who speaks out. The artists who participated in the Gezi protests are now being arrested one by one. It is exerting a very intense repression against them. It is forcefully appointing trustees to municipalities that had been elected by the people. This isn’t limited to Kurdistan anymore. Now the government is also appointing trustees to CHP municipalities under the pretext of corruption. In some places, they do not yet dare to take this direct step and discredit the elected representatives instead. That is why people no longer trust the government.

Rêber Apo is making valuable efforts. It is also recognizable that there are approaches in the state that support and advocate this. Despite the government, there is a tendency within the state towards a democratic solution to the Kurdish question. That is something that Rêber Apo also sees, and he wants to strengthen and nurture this tendency. He is putting all his strength into it. It is necessary that we do not leave the responsibility for this solely on his shoulders and that we also not oversee this tendency developing within the state. During the AKP’s time in government, there have been moments from time to time when such tendencies have increased within the state itself. This was the case in 2005, for example. But the AKP always exploited this tendency for its own interests, for the interests of power. It turned it into a political tool, and it also turned these efforts of Rêber Apo into a political tool, instrumentalizing them. At the end, it always suppressed and liquidated that tendency within the state and gained power from all of them.

The process that took place between 2013 and 2015 did not differ in any way in this respect. The AKP exploited and instrumentalized that process purely on the basis of its own interests. Now, what should be done to prevent the same fate, the same circle, from happening? What can be done to prevent a failure again? It is necessary to support the ongoing efforts strongly. All parts of society, all democratic mass organizations, civil society organizations, all democratic and oppositional forces, people from all ethnicities and beliefs, particularly all women and the youth, who are in favor of democracy, peace, justice, equality, and freedom, should embrace this process and play a role in it. They must struggle for the success of this process. This process is crucial. Accordingly, it is required to unite all strength, cooperate, and carry out a holistic struggle for peace and a democratic solution. Everyone should support the initiatives of Rêber Apo and should strengthen and support these searches within the state. In order for this process to succeed on the basis of the solution of the Kurdish question, on the basis of the democratization of Turkey, for it to yield results, everyone must participate in this process with all their strength.

There have been some messages in this direction. There have also been positive messages from the political parties of the parliament. But making statements and giving messages is not enough. The government is creating serious confusion, and this is reflected in the editorial policy of the media close to the opposition. Its rhetoric fluctuates from positive to negative, sometimes supportive, sometimes totally dismissive. Rather than a language that develops, nourishes, grows, and helps this process to achieve results, a language that sabotages and provokes, and thereby serves the government, has become prominent in the ruling media and some opposition media. This needs to be overcome. If justice, peace, and democracy are to come to Turkey, the democratic solution of the Kurdish question is the way to this. And it is through the democratization of Turkey. The root cause of all the problems in Turkey is the lack of a solution to the Kurdish question. The main reason why Turkey is so oppressive, fascist, and antidemocratic is the lack of a solution to the Kurdish question. It is genocidal policies and war. The society in Turkey needs to grasp this now. The opposition needs to grasp it with all its depth. It is necessary to disrupt these games of the government. And this is solely possible through a common, united, and integrated struggle.

It was said that peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan will send a direct message to your movement. Can you confirm that this is the case?

So far we have not received anything from Rêber Apo. Neither was there a direct message, nor a letter. But we are waiting for that. What I can say is that as soon as something reaches us directly from Rêber Apo, we will discuss it together and act accordingly. But as I said, nothing has reached us yet. But we believe that something will come and we are expecting it.

The state draws the current focus of discussion on the armed struggle and the ongoing war. The state calls on you to lay down arms. Why did your movement consider it necessary to take up arms back then, and why do you still see a need to do so today?

Because of the existence of the Kurdish question, there is an armed struggle. If there were no policies of denial and annihilation, if there were no genocidal policies and warfare, if there were no extermination and assimilation on the Kurds, of course the armed struggle would not have developed. The PKK would not have been established. The establishment of the PKK, the beginning of the armed struggle in 1984, the fact that such a glorious struggle has been going on for nearly half a century, growing steadily, despite heavy costs, is due to the fact that the policies of denial and annihilation against the Kurds have not been overcome. It is because the Kurdish question is not solved on a democratic basis. This is the main reason for the armed struggle. It still continues today, because the reasons why it was necessary to take up arms have not disappeared.

The Kurdish question has yet to be solved, and Turkey has not democratized. As long as it continues to be like this, there will be weapons, there will be resistance, and there will be struggle. How can the Kurds be left defenseless while the Kurdish question remains unsolved? There is a genocidal war against the Kurds, a war of extermination. Without ending the denial and annihilation, without ending the genocidal policies and war, the Kurds cannot take down their defense. Were all these heavy prices, all these gains, all these values, the value of freedom, created in vain? Of course not. As long as this genocidal war continues, as long as the policies of denial, annihilation, and genocide continue, as long as the Kurdish question is not solved on a democratic basis, armed resistance and armed struggle will continue. This is clear. The Kurdish question will be solved, and it will happen in democratic conditions. When the state puts forward a serious goodwill, a serious policy, and a solution policy, when it sits down with Rêber Apo and negotiates this issue on the basis of democratic conditions, then, of course, the issue of weapons can and will be discussed.

Weapons were taken up because of the existence of this question. All of these discussions currently being carried out in the ruling media are psychological special warfare. The impact of the freedom struggle, especially in recent years, created by the global freedom campaign, the level of struggle that has emerged, the serious strain this has created in the government and the state, and the anxiety and fear created by the developments in the region have created a complex and serious situation. Now they reached such a point that they try such effort. They are trying to gain power from this process. In order to cover up their failures, the current government and its media are approaching extremely frivolously, narrowly, pragmatically, and self-interestedly. They summarize all that is going on in one empty headline, saying, ‘The PKK is finished. Ocalan will make a call, and they will lay down arms.’ The current government and its media are in a non-serious attitude that aims to completely gain power and instrumentalize the current process with a very frivolous, narrow, pragmatic, and self-interested understanding. This has no basis whatsoever and is far from reality. Right now, Rêber Apo is working in Imrali for the democratic solution of the Kurdish question and the democratization of Turkey. He is intensively working 24/7. If this process develops, if the Kurdish question is solved, the issue of weapons will of course be discussed. The statements of all state officials and the press regarding the war have no real equivalent. They are saying these things to cover up their own failures, to hide the truth from the public and society.

The AKP government is going through the weakest period in its 20-year history. It is in the process of collapse. Politics in Turkey has collapsed, the economy has collapsed, the law is underfoot, and there is no justice. There is a serious moral decay in society. There was the recent fire in the hotel in Bolu, Kartalkaya. The hotel did not even have an alarm system. 78 people burned to death. This is a complete massacre. It is said that 45 of the dead were children. This is a very painful situation. This situation shows the true state the government is in.

I would like to take this opportunity to offer my condolences to the families of those who lost their lives and wish a speedy recovery to the wounded. It is a really sad situation. The anniversary of the February 6 earthquake is approaching. Hundreds of thousands of people lost their lives. Total cities were leveled to the ground. Millions of people today are still living in a miserable situation. They cannot find a morsel of bread, cannot find a house to live in, and some even cannot find a tent to sleep in. This government has brought Turkey to this point.

All of Turkey’s income, resources, and economic opportunities are spent on the war. The result of forty years of armed struggle is obvious. The result of this genocidal war on the Kurds is obvious. Four trillion dollars have been spent, and this is only the amount they openly admitted. All resources were spent on this. Not only economic resources; the little bit of law that still existed in the country was also eliminated. Justice disappeared; everything disappeared. They destroyed Turkey.

Turkey is facing a serious collapse, a breakdown in domestic and foreign policy. In order to cover this up, the government is creating an atmosphere as if it has come out of this process with great success. They speak about how the PKK was defeated, that it will lay down their arms, or that if they refuse, they will bury them with their arms. The government is trying to make people believe this with such demagoguery, trying to deceive and fool everyone. But what is the reality? The truth is it covers up its failure with these discourses. The truth is that this current government policy is over, exhausted, and bankrupt. The winner is the democratic will of the struggle of our people and all peoples.

The fact that the current agenda, this current process, was started is entirely the result of the revolutionary democratic struggle and resistance. So the reality is not what the government claims. There is no basis for what they are saying; there is nothing tangible about it. They are all lies. It has become a government of lies. Their statements should not be taken seriously.

Can you put the Kurdish question for us into context? What is the solution project that peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan is working on? What is the focus and how can it be achieved?

The policies of Kurdish denial and annihilation, and the process of dividing Kurdistan into four parts, began with the First Cairo Conference. It was in fact the first Cairo Conference that laid the groundwork for the later and more prominent Lausanne Conference. The decision taken at the Cairo Conference was for the hegemonic system to establish dominance over the region on the basis of the unsolved Kurdish question. And so the policy of Kurdish denial gradually developed in the following years. In Lausanne, this was formalized. The infamous Lausanne Treaty was signed in 1923, three years after the first Cairo Conference. A Kurdish trap has been created with the Cairo Conference and the Treaty of Lausanne. The Kurdish question was left unresolved, and a state of war was created with policies of denial, annihilation, and genocide. In this course, the Turkish state has been kept in a state of war with the Kurds uninterruptedly. This situation has been a constant source of nourishment for the hegemonic system. They used Turkey on this basis to dominate the region. The system took advantage of this dependency and constantly deepened the crisis. This is what Rêber Apo called the ‘Kurdish Trap’.

Of course, this was not only a trap for the Kurds. In fact, as our leader also stated, it was a trap for all the peoples. And the peoples were lured into a trap, subjected to a conspiracy. Now Rêber Apo wants to break and overcome this trap. He wants to completely overcome it on the basis of the democratic solution of the Kurdish question, the democratization of Turkey, and the democratization of the region, and thereby to eliminate this conspiracy. He is making a very intense effort in this direction.

Now, this is actually a 32-year struggle. In 1993, the search initiated by our leader with the first uniliteral ceasefire was an attempt in this direction. Over time, this process developed and matured. Today in Imrali, these ideas have reached a system based on the paradigm of the democratic nation, on women’s liberation, and on an ecological and democratic society. This is extremely decisive. Rêber Apo is currently working on this paradigm. He wants to solve the Kurdish question based on it. As far as we are able to follow it right now, especially from the results of the talks, we understand the following: Rêber Apo is working on the relationship between the state and democracy and is trying to create a solution on the basis of democratic society. The main question is how the state and democracy can co-exist. How the relationship between the state and democracy can be regulated. And how this relationship can be given a legal and constitutional basis.

Democracy is a form of administration of society. The state, on the other hand, is an instrument of hegemonic pressure on society as a whole. How can a sensitivity to democracy be created now, especially in a country like Turkey, which has a fascist, genocidal, and monist state? How can the state’s relationship with self-administration, the governance model of a democratic society, be regulated? How can the law, legislation, and constitution of this relationship look? As far as we understand, Rêber Apo is currently deepening his answers to these questions. He is trying to develop a model of a democratic society. Without rejecting the state, he is working on a model of self-administration that is intertwined with the state and respectful of each other and that guarantees the rights and laws of both sides in a legal and constitutional manner. As far as we understand from all we hear, including the last two meetings with Omer Ocalan and the DEM Party delegation, Rêber Apo is concentrating on such a solution model. He wants to negotiate this solution model with the state and is making very serious efforts in this regard. Moreover, he is making a very intense effort not only for the democratization of Turkey but also for the democratization of the region, including, for example, Iran and Syria. Always with the question in mind on how the imperialist and capitalist games on the peoples of the region can be frustrated. Rêber Apo is spending a lot of effort and energy on all these questions. We follow and observe this. Anyone who examines the prison writings of Rêber Apo in depth, will comprehend what kind of solution model Rêber Apo is focusing on.

The state is currently in a serious hesitation. It knows that this process cannot continue like this. No matter what it does, it cannot suppress this movement and struggle. It is not possible to stop the Kurds’ quest for freedom. Today, there is a highly conscious, strong-willed, organized, and politicized Kurdish people all over the world and in the four parts of Kurdistan. There is an organized struggle. This is deepening and becoming a culture and tradition. This situation is deeply rooted in every cell of Kurdish society, and it is not possible to liquidate it. For this reason, the state is currently in a search. However, at the current stage, there is still no complete acceptance. There is a serious war. One of the main reasons for this war, this fight, and these attacks is the state’s uncertainty and hesitation. Therefore, what is essential is the struggle of the Kurds, the peoples of Turkey, and the democratic forces, and within them particularly of the women and youth. With a strong and comprehensive struggle, the state can be forced to take a clear position and move towards a solution. A strong and holistic struggle is essential for this.

What is the special position of women in this context, and what special role do women play in the struggle to solve the Kurdish question?

Women are the foundation of society. In the words of our leader, the woman is the essence of sociology. Women are the basic force, the constitutive force, the subject, and the constructive force that makes up society. No solution, no work, and no struggle can be successful without women being active and the subject of the process. Our struggle is a woman-centered struggle. As women are liberated, society is liberated – life is liberated. This is the basic philosophy and principle of our struggle.

There is intense oppression, genocide, and violence against women. A feminicide is being practiced on women. It is because women are the main subject, the leading force in change, transformation, and democratization. By liquidating this power, democratization and liberation are tried to be prevented. For this reason, the women’s liberation movement is being tried to be broken, its will destroyed and surrendered. Women’s quest for freedom is being suppressed, and they try to prevent it. This is the main reason for the intense violence against women.

The democratic solution of the Kurdish question, the democratization of Turkey, and the democratization of the region offer a liberating environment for women the most. Because women are the biggest losers in this war, the ones who suffer and are victimized the most. If this war comes to an end, if the Kurdish question finds a democratic solution and Turkey becomes democratized, if the fascist, monist, and genocidal state structure is overcome and a democratic republic is established, women will be the biggest winners. An enormous area of freedom will open up for women. That is why women need to make a great contribution to this process. They really need to take the lead in this process in a strong way. Everywhere, in Kurdistan and Turkey, the Kurdish women’s movement and the women’s movement in Turkey must wage a joint struggle. Women must wage a united and integrated struggle for an honorable and meaningful peace, for the democratic solution of the Kurdish question, and for the democratization of Turkey. This struggle must be strong and must be continued with determination. It will play a decisive role for the women’s movement to be the subject and pioneer of this libertarian, egalitarian, and democratic process. I call on all women to participate in this process.

While discussions about possible developments continue in Turkey, the war continues unabated. Especially the war in North and East Syria. How do you assess this?

As Rêber Apo has put it, if this process does not evolve on a political and legal ground, it is impossible for the war to end. The failure to put the process on a political and legal basis stems from the policy of insistence on war. As long as this insistence on war continues, this process cannot turn into a political and legal process.

Currently, the Turkish state is waging a serious war against the Kurds and the peoples of the region. A war of genocide and occupation is being waged in North and East Syria. On a daily basis there are reports about civilians that have been deliberately targeted by the Turkish state. Civilian centers are being bombed. These constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity. How can one talk about peace or a settlement process for the Kurds and the peoples of North and East Syria while a genocidal war is going on? That is why this situation cannot be called a peace process or a solution process. It cannot be called that. And no one can claim that. Because the genocidal war continues with all its intensity. It continues everywhere. North and East Syria is one concrete example of this.

The gangs and mercenaries organized by the Turkish state – all of which are ISIS remnants – are waging a genocidal war against the peoples of North and East Syria. This reveals how unserious the current government approaches the process and how much it strives for war. So far, 22 civilians have been murdered at the Tishreen Dam and the Qereqozakh Bridge alone. On this occasion, I commemorate Bave Teyar, Menice Haco Heyder, and all the martyrs with respect, love, and gratitude. Also, many fighters of YPG and YPJ, and SDF in general, have given their lives in this resistance. I commemorate them all with great respect, love, and gratitude. A magnificent resistance is being put up in that region. This resistance broke the attacks, and the mercenaries and their gangs are now in shambles. They have no will to fight any longer, so it is the Turkish state that is constantly conducting airstrikes. It is no longer able to force its mercenaries and gangs on the ground to fight. They are broken, scattered. So now their remnants, and the remnants of ISIS, are being gathered and are being dragged into the war. Turkey is releasing the ISIS members it has in its prison and which they had kept for tactical purposes. And they are driving those murderers and rapists against the peoples of North and East Syria.

I would like to take this opportunity to address the international powers. A coalition has been formed against ISIS. And this coalition has formed an alliance with the SDF to fight against ISIS. Yes, they fought against ISIS together for a while, and some operations continue from time to time. However, Turkey has been carrying out attacks against the bridge of Qereqozakh and the dam of Tishreen for months. This is nothing that started just some weeks ago. This attack started long before. But ok, let’s take it since November 27th. They are waging a war against the Kurds there with the remnants of ISIS. So if this coalition is organized to fight against ISIS, why isn’t it waging a joint struggle against this together with the SDF? Why doesn’t it take a stance? Why does it turn a blind eye and solely watch? On a daily basis, Kurds are being massacred. The peoples of North and East Syria are being massacred. The crime of genocide is being committed. All civilian centers are being hit, living places are being hit, and infrastructure is being hit. This is a war crime; this is a crime of genocide. So why don’t they raise a voice? All coalition forces are there. America is there, Britain is there, France, Germany, and all of them are there. They all have units and forces there in some form or another. This is happening in front of their eyes. The Turkish state is driving ISIS against the Kurds. Since you have formed a coalition with 72 states to fight against ISIS, why don’t you take a stand? Why don’t you fight against them together with the SDF? Why don’t you take a clear stance against the Turkish state? The Turkish state is driving ISIS against the Kurds. Together with ISIS, it is waging a genocidal war against the Kurds. There is a great hypocrisis.

There has been a great resistance and a very important result has been achieved. The will of the mercenaries and their gangs to fight has been broken. Now the Turkish state is trying to avenge this by bombing and massacring civilians. It is waging a war of revenge. It directly deployed its own soldiers, but again it failed to get a result.

Since we are already talking about the war and resistance in North and East Syria; today is also the tenth anniversary of the liberation of Kobane. What can you tell us about the resistance back then and what influence it still has today?

Indeed, it is the 10th anniversary of the Kobane resistance, and on this occasion I would like to commemorate all the resistance fighters who gave their lives within the resistance of Kobane with respect, love, and gratitude by commemorating Arin Mirkan. It was a glorious resistance and a great historic victory that was won in Kobane. It was after the resistance of Kobane that ISIS went downhill. In this sense, the Kobane resistance was a resistance of humanity. In Kobane, Kurds resisted not only for their own rights and freedom, they resisted for all humanity, they resisted for all peoples. And this was embraced all around the world. On November 1, World Kobane Day, the peoples of the world stood up, as well as in all the parts of Kurdistan. In other words, the Kobane resistance developed a great national unity and solidarity among Kurds. It brought the conscience of humanity together. The socialist and democratic forces of Turkey showed a great example of solidarity and unity. In this course I also want to commemorate the 33 socialist youth who were massacred in Pirsus (tr. Suruc) by ISIS.

The spirit of Kobanê, the spirit of resistance, fed and grew the spirit of resistance of all the peoples of North and East Syria. It strengthened and nourished the resistance tradition of humanity. Now, something similar to that spirit is being experienced at the Qereqozakh Bridge and the Tishreen Dam. Our people are resisting with the spirit of Kobane. But still, every resistance has its own uniqueness. Every resistance has its own characteristic. And so has the resistance of Tishreen and Qereqozakh. It is very strong, and tens of thousands of people pour to Tishreen to be part of the resistance alongside the SDF.

Our people of North and East Syria, our people of Rojava, have developed a resistance and struggle along the lines of the strategy of revolutionary people’s war. The reality of the people fighting is the people’s stance that we see in North and East Syria, that we see in Rojava. It is the people’s struggle. I congratulate and salute this resistance stance of our people. It is very valuable, very precious. In a very glorious and honorable way, they defend their land, defend their honor, and defend their existence and freedom. This must continue and grow stronger. This is essential for survival. The spirit of resistance in Kobane has also nourished this spirit. It has added strength and has created a culture of resistance. Through that culture, this resistance continues and develops everywhere. As a result, of course, in the face of this resistance, no matter what level of attack, it is not possible for the enemy to get results. It is clear that it is not getting results.

This brings us to the developments in Syria in general, as well as to the reorganization of the Middle East, which is currently being driven forward by the imperial hegemonic powers and regional powers. How do you assess these?

Turkey is creating an atmosphere as if it has won in Syria, as if it has achieved a great victory. But it will become even clearer in the future that this is hollow and empty. Their propaganda may deceive some people now. And sure, they may have achieved some short-term gains, but these gains will not last long. This is very clear. That is something we highlighted before, and that we will highlight again. They will not let Turkey swallow Syria. Turkey’s aspiration is that it will establish its full hegemony over Syria and, based on this, build full dominance over the Middle East, thus becoming a hegemonic power, that is merely a fantasy. A ridiculous idea that the actual hegemonic powers do not allow.

As a matter of fact, Iran’s influence has been broken in Syria, as well as in Lebanon. Iran has lost significant power in the region. Turkey was in a serious competition with Iran. It was engaged in a hegemonic struggle over the region. And now, Iran, its rival, declined, but however, at the moment, a new serious rival of Turkey, especially in the Arab arena and in the Middle East, is Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has serious influence on HTS. It is increasing its influence in Syria. It has a serious sphere of influence in the south of Syria. And it currently has intense relations with the Damascus administration. At the same time, Saudi Arabia developed strong relations with Israel. It was included in the Abraham Accords as a crucial part of it. These relations are developing even further. Saudi Arabia is gradually trying to become a hegemonic power in the region, and thus is making serious reforms within itself. Today’s Saudi Arabia has changed a lot. Under the reign of King Salman, many reforms have been made and continue to be made. Saudi Arabia has fully integrated itself into the global system and is further developing this process. Syria will be designed on the basis of Israel’s interests and security, and Saudi Arabia will have a decisive role in this.

If the Turkish state insists on its current policy, its current limited influence in Syria may be completely broken, it may disappear. Indeed, if Turkey continues with this mindset, with its policy of Kurdish hostility and Kurdish genocide, without considering anyone’s interests, and by turning everything around its own axis of interest, it will be the biggest losing power in the region. In the current situation, it has already suffered a certain loss. They are trying to do everything through deception and deceit. They are conducting an intense discussion and immediately rushed to Damascus to sit down with the HTS administration and make agreements, focusing on the increase of Turkey’s influence in the Mediterranean. There are serious efforts and attempts to frustrate Turkey’s efforts. For example, the agreement between Greece and Southern Cyprus and the agreements between Greece and Egypt and Southern Cyprus undermine and frustrate such attempts by Turkey. The Gulf countries and especially Saudi Arabia are also trying to increase their influence over Syria and thereby exclude Turkey. As I mentioned, most of all, Saudi Arabia is currently trying to increase its influence in the region in collaboration with Israel.

The current government should not deceive the society or fool itself. The Kurdish genocide policies are constantly losing Turkey. Kurdish hostility leads to Turkey’s isolation. If Turkey does not give up these policies, it may completely lose the little gains it has made in the region and in the world. This mentality and these policies are isolating Turkey in every sense. Other claims and discourses are part of psychological warfare, aimed at deceiving the public. They create the impression that Turkey dominates the Middle East, Africa, the South Caucasus, and Central Asia. With these policies, Turkey continues to be the losing side in the region.

At the same time, in Kurdistan and the Middle East, Kurdish national unity is coming back to the agenda under these conditions of the Third World War. If Kurdish unity is achieved, the Kurds can play a very crucial role in the redesign of the region. They can gain their political status and identity and secure their existence and freedom. However, if the Kurds remain fragmented and scattered, they may remain ineffective in this process. Right now, history offers golden opportunities for the Kurds. The Kurds are the most decisive power in the region. They are a fundamental actor in regional politics and balances. In this conjuncture, the democratic unity of the Kurds is of vital importance. There is no problem of unity among the people. The national consciousness, unity of spirit and emotion, is quite strong. When there is an attack somewhere, solidarity and reflexes develop everywhere.

In the face of this strong demand for unity, all efforts for it must be supported. We also support these efforts. There are efforts in this direction in Rojava, and these are very valuable. We are ready to make every contribution to support national unity. This process is a fundamental task for achieving democratic unity.

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