our interviews

As was reflected in the pictures that were spread in the media, there were very expressive and well-attended celebrations for Newroz this year. How did you perceive this? What kind of spirit, what kind of message, did you find in the way the Kurdish people and their international friends celebrated?

This year’s Newroz was indeed very unique and special. But before getting into it, I would like to congratulate Rêber Apo¹ on this year’s Newroz and convey to him my respect and greetings. I also gratefully commemorate all the martyrs of Newroz and the revolution by remembering our immortal martyrs Mazlum Dogan, Zekiye, Berivan, Rahshan, and Ronahi. I respectfully bow to their memories. Once again I congratulate our people and international friends on this year’s Newroz.

For the first time in 50 years, Newroz was celebrated with such great excitement and enthusiasm in all four parts of Kurdistan and abroad. It was celebrated by masses taking to the square from Japan to everywhere in the world where Kurds live. Of course there are reasons for this. Newroz has always been a very special day for the Kurdish people, a day of resistance and rebellion. But the unique moment of this year’s Newroz was, as everyone knows, gained through Rêber Apo’s ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’. This call has created a unique excitement among the Kurdish people. The messages our people gave at this year’s Newroz are important. First and foremost, Rêber Apo’s call, which basically is a manifesto, was welcomed and embraced. Our people highlighted that the manifesto developed by Rêber Apo is essential for them and that they will support it in every way. The Kurdish people are aware that since the founding of the freedom movement, Rêber Apo has been fighting for Kurds, for oppressed peoples, and for all humanity, particularly the women. The manifesto of Rêber Apo is again based on this, and that is why our people endorsed their embrace of it so strongly at all the Newroz celebrations.

There were those who did not expect such a massive uprising of tens of millions of Kurds and their international friends and who did not foresee such support for Rêber Apo’s manifesto. It was also them who had argued that Rêber Apo’s manifesto was not in line with the interests of the Kurdish people, but our people know, understand, and believe in Rêber Apo. And they gave their clear answer at Newroz by gathering in such masses and by endorsing their support for the manifesto.

So, the first and most crucial message that the people expressed at this year’s Newroz was to embrace Rêber Apo’s manifesto. This is a very decisive message in such a critical period. The second message of our people, to both friend and foe, was that they are still committed to their own achievements and values, that they are still determined in their struggle for their own existence and for free life, and that they are prepared to give everything and pay any price for this. The people have once again underlined this stance, and this is also of immense importance right now.

The third message our people gave was given to the Turkish state. The Turkish state tried to influence the Kurdish people through defamatory propaganda, tried to create different agendas, tried to stage that there were problems between our movement, Rêber Apo, and the people, tried to present itself as very successful, and tried to show the Kurdish people as helpless, without will, without struggle. Against these efforts of the Turkish state, our people embraced the manifesto of Rêber Apo with a strong will and great enthusiasm. The propaganda of the Turkish state against our movement, Rêber Apo, and our people was ineffective, and it will not achieve results. The Turkish state must realize that we are committed to our values, that we are ready for a solution, but we will never submit. If the Turkish state does not open its eyes to this reality, it cannot solve its very own problems. This is the attitude of the Kurdish people. This message of our people to the Turkish state was important.

Maybe not for the first time, but for the first time to such an extent, our people celebrated Newroz with a national spirit in the four parts of Kurdistan, Europe, and many other parts of the world. This is of great significance. We have expressed it many times, and Rêber Apo has also emphasized the importance of national unity many times and has done great labor for it. The dream of the Kurdish people is to achieve national unity. This Newroz, all Kurds participated with all their colors, expressing their will and living great enthusiasm. All Kurdish parties, organizations, politicians, intellectuals, and academics must understand and embrace this message given by the Kurdish people. Everyone must take responsibility, fulfill their duties, and respond to the demand of the Kurdish people so that national unity can be established.

It was also of high value that women and youth were again at the vanguard of this year’s Newroz. Especially after the celebration of International Women’s Day on March 8, with the synergy, morale, and excitement of the manifesto developed by Rêber Apo, Newroz was celebrated more strongly this year everywhere.

The ‘Call for Peace and Democratic Society’ by peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan mentioned by you was announced on February 27, and only a few days later the PKK expressed its support for the call. Since then, more than a month has passed without the Turkish government taking a single step. How do you assess this and what will be the consequences if this continues?

On February 27th, Rêber Apo made a call that concerns our people, the peoples of Turkey, the Turkish state, and international politics. The PKK attached great importance to Rêber Apo’s call. Without wasting time, it held meetings, held discussions, and expressed its stance. It declared that the PKK is together with Rêber Apo, that this manifesto is valid for them, that they are committed to the decisions made by Rêber Apo, and that they will fulfill them. The PKK made its position clear to the public. In this course, it declared a unilateral ceasefire on March 1. The PKK’s declaration of a unilateral ceasefire despite such a critical process showed how serious the PKK is on this issue. It took responsibility to fulfill Rêber Apo’s call. Naturally, the Turkish state should have raised a positive stance as well and should have taken a positive step. That was the purpose of the ceasefire anyway. Firstly, to show how serious the PKK is about this issue, and secondly, to stop the war and declare a ceasefire. In other words, giving everyone the chance to think, focus, discuss, prepare, take the necessary steps, make plans, and create the basis, ground, and psychology for the process to develop. This is why the PKK’s step was important. Against this, the Turkish state neither made a positive statement nor took a positive practical step. They acted as if they had never spoken to Rêber Apo, as if they were not aware of the call made by Rêber Apo, as if they were not involved in this work, as if the PKK had not declared a ceasefire. There was no change in their rhetoric, their statements, or their practices. They broke any hope or did not create any hope because there is nothing. Recently the HPG press made a statement; in the month from March 1 to the present day, the Turkish state has carried out more than 9,000 attacks despite the PKK’s declaration of a ceasefire.

It cannot be possible that on the one hand there is talk of a process and a ceasefire, while on the other hand attacks continue uninterrupted and the war goes on as if nothing had changed. That says a lot about how seriously the issue is being taken. That process did not start only with Rêber Apo. Everyone knows that there have been important developments in the Middle East; the Turkish state has evaluated these developments, and from Bahceli to others, they have made statements, saying that they need to strengthen the inner front, that there is danger on their borders, and that the recent conflicts will affect Turkey as well. There is such a fear in the Turkish state. Also, the Turkish state was not succeeding against the PKK. They used all their means and relations, both domestically and internationally, they used the most advanced technology, they had the support of NATO, they had the political support of America and Europe, but whatever they did, they could not get results. They realized that they had reached a dead end, that they could not break the will of the PKK, that they could not solve the Kurdish question by force, and they felt the need to pave the way for an initiative. So, Bahceli stated that Rêber Apo should come and speak in parliament.

Since 1993, Rêber Apo has been struggling for a political and democratic solution to the Kurdish question. On this basis, Rêber Apo developed this call, which, like I pointed out before, is a manifesto, after holding talks and discussions with state officials. But now we see that the Turkish state insists on its policy, as if there is no such thing. There is no serious approach. They all ask why the PKK hasn’t laid down arms, why it hasn’t convened its congress. Is it so easy to convene a congress and lay down arms? Our comrades have expressed many times that the congress can not convene without Rêber Apo, that no one can decide to dissolve the PKK other than Rêber Apo, and that no one but him can tell the guerrilla who swore an oath in the name of Rêber Apo to lay down arms. The Turkish state is very well aware of this. If it wants these things done, they know what they have to do. The PKK has openly and honestly shared with the public what it considers is reasonable and necessary in this regard. Rêber Apo must be free and be enabled to carry out his work freely.

It is not like the Turkish state had said no to this issue, but a month has passed, and as far as we are aware, there has been no change in the conditions under which Rêber Apo lives. How are the Kurdish people, the PKK, to understand this? They claimed that they would make changes regarding Rêber Apo’s situation, that legal and legislative changes would be made, and that a commission would be established in parliament. For this, the Imrali delegation held talks with many parties and set the agenda. As if none of this happened, a month has passed. Rêber Apo has published a manifesto, and the Turkish state has not done a single thing, neither saying anything positive nor demonstrating a positive practice. They only say that the PKK should convene a congress and lay down arms.

Most recently, the current vice president of Turkey, Cevdet Yilmaz, was on a TV channel, and they asked him if the Imrali delegation will go once again. His answer was that the delegation would not go there again, as they had already conveyed the necessary messages. Is this really the level at which they want to approach? Is this their level of seriousness? Is this the way to communicate with Rêber Apo? Do they seriously think that the whole thing can be settled unilaterally with just one call? There can be no such thing. They lack seriousness and sincerity. They themselves were saying that a 100-year-old problem will be solved, that Rêber Apo assumed a great responsibility, but now they say that the delegation has been there once or twice and now everything has to end. They are not serious. Again, the Minister of Justice said that they are evaluating Rêber Apo’s application for a family visit. Where is the seriousness in this? A family visit is the right of all prisoners; there is nothing to evaluate.

How could it come to this point? Instead of the delegation going to Rêber Apo, instead of Rêber Apo gaining his freedom, being able to communicate freely with everyone, keeping direct contact with the PKK, convening and holding the congress, working freely, and discussing and developing perspectives, the state is now developing such an approach. Even if one puts all this aside, they say, “Hold your congress”. How is that supposed to work? Who are they kidding? How can they be so lacking in seriousness? They wage war and launch 9,000 attacks in less than 30 days and say, “Hold your congress” under those conditions. What they are basically saying is, “Give up and surrender”. And that’s nothing new. It’s exactly what they’ve been saying for 40 years and what has been unsuccessful for 40 years.

Rêber Apo took upon his shoulders a historic responsibility, not only towards the Kurdish people but also towards Turkish society. The bill for the Kurdish question is very heavy; the hunger, unemployment, misery, collapsing economy, and blocked politics. Turkey’s reputation is gone since they mobilized everything for war. Rêber Apo wanted to put an end to this. Rêber Apo’s paradigm is the paradigm of democratic society and the democratic nation. If Turkey is not becoming democratic, if the Kurdish question is not solved, neither the Kurds nor the Turks will ever be comfortable. The problems will only continue to grow many times more. This is what is happening right now.

Everyone can see that Turkey’s attitude in this process is not positive; they are repeating themselves; they are not fooling our movement or the PKK; they are fooling themselves. For them, the psychology of hostility is still the focus, and they try to stage themselves as the dominant force. But the Kurdish people are a political people; they are a people of struggle. They have paid a high price; they are well aware of what is truly happening. If such a process develops and is successful, they will struggle. Rêber Apo pointed out that the more the paradigm is understood and the more it is put into practice, the stronger one will be and the more results one will get. In other words, what is important is that all our people and all democratic forces should struggle; they should not just wonder why the Turkish state has not taken a step; they should put pressure on the Turkish state with their struggle so that the state is forced to take steps. The people must find that power and solution in themselves and develop their struggle.

The physical freedom of Rêber Apo is our main agenda. The global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo has reached a high level, and it must be continued uninterruptedly like this everywhere. When Rêber Apo developed his manifesto, not only the Kurdish people and their international friends but also many international powers appreciated this call. The UN, the EU, many European states, the US, many civil organizations, civil institutions, and individuals have expressed that they all see the call positively. Keeping this in mind, it is necessary to organize the global campaign for the physical freedom of Rêber Apo better, to make better use of the opportunities created, and to develop the campaign uninterruptedly.

It is often said that the AKP is pursuing a policy of crisis management in Turkey. This is reflected in all areas, including foreign policy, for example. What responsibility do the democratic, socialist and opposition forces in particular have towards this policy of constant crisis?

The Turkish state has economic, political, internal, and external problems. Turkish society has historically not really experienced a process of democratization. For example, looking at Europe, one can see that there has been a struggle for democracy for hundreds of years; democratic achievements and values have emerged – now, if a European state wants to destroy these values, the European society will prevent it; it will struggle. In the history of Turkey, this struggle remained very weak. Politics has always been regulated from above. Society has not fully strengthened the democratic struggle. That is why it has always been easy to rule the state, while society has remained silent. But as we know, the world is changing, especially the Middle East is changing; Turkey’s problems are very deep, and their development is decisive. It is no longer possible to easily govern the state. Looking at the situation of the AKP, their foreign policy is still based on Neo-Ottomanism; they want to spread from the Middle East to North Africa like the Ottomans. What are they doing in Libya, for example? Are they solving any problems there, or are they deepening the existing ones? What are they doing in Somalia? Are they solving any problems there, or are they deepening the existing ones? Or Iraq, an independent state that neighbors Turkey. Turkey deployed tens of thousands of troops and occupied Iraq. Same accounts for Syria. Does Turkey’s intervention in Syria solve any problems? The main reason why the problems in Syria cannot be solved is the Turkish state. The main problem of the Kurdish people, the other nations, beliefs, and religions in the region is the current Turkish state. They do politics with whoever is closest to their mentality. They support those who behead women and children, especially those who target Êzidîs (Yazidis) and Kurds. This politics will not bring peace and democracy to Syria. Their foreign policy is all about escalation, occupation, and injustice. This does not give the Turkish state any credibility or power. On the contrary, it weakens it.

But like I said, the Turkish state also has the same problems at home. What is the state of their economy? It is probably ranked as the fifth or sixth worst economy in the world. Is it because of Turkey’s lack of underground and above-ground wealth, or is Turkish society unemployed? The reason is that the bill for the trillions they have spent on the war over the decades is being charged to Turkish society. How does the Turkish state, the AKP, manage this? Through repression. They try to force Turkish society not to raise their voice, not to protest, but instead to accept everything, to consent to everything. Society is miserable; politics is blocked; academics do not dare to speak; intellectuals hide their thoughts; universities are not free; society is not democratic or free. In Turkey there is no stability, only chaos, crisis, and a bunch of intertwined problems. The only possible way towards a solution would be democratic politics, but instead they insist on oppression. The AKP’s will, preference, and reality deem this necessary; it is not democratic, but oppressive, using courts and police force against society.

To name just one of the practices that stem from this state policy, for years they have appointed trustees to municipalities against Kurdish democratic politics, in the past against the HDP and today against the DEM. And the Kurdish people never gave in to this; they insisted on their struggle. The Turkish state, the government, is afraid of democracy. They are always afraid of the stance of the society. Right now, there is also a development within the CHP. Ekrem Imamoglu, who stands out as an alternative to Erdogan, is preparing himself for the presidency. So the AKP started to go after the CHP. Most recently they arrested Ekrem Imamoglu and appointed trustees to several CHP municipalities. The CHP’s stance against these attacks was important and crucial. But one can’t help but wonder where this attitude has been hidden until now. There was so much pressure, rejection, annihilation, and attacks against the political will of the Kurdish people, against democratic politics already before, but the CHP didn’t raise any voice against it. Today, they had to take a stand because there was such pressure on them themselves. We still see it as positive, but the important thing is that they generally insist on this; if this persists and the CHP determines, it will respond to this historic and important moment.

It was not only under the leadership of the CHP that society united and formed a democratic will and a force for action. Society is about to explode in the face of the oppression and cruelty of the AKP state. It has always bottled up its discontent, always swallowed it, but today it says enough is enough. Hundreds of academics and intellectuals have now taken a stand against Erdogan due to oppression and persecution. They said enough is enough. We consider it important that academics express their stance so clearly and responsibly. It is almost like a call. A call inviting everyone to responsibility. It is a call for the people to stand up, to defend their rights against injustice, and to stand for democracy and freedom. We look at the universities; for the first time in years, thousands of students from Kurdistan that moved to the metropolises of Turkey stood up. This is also very important. Under the leadership of women and with the participation of the youth, society is now on its feet. This is an important moment. If all democratic forces unite their voices and political will, if they take action together, if they speak out in unison for the democratization of Turkey, for the rights of the Kurdish people, and for the freedom of Rêber Apo, history will be written.

The Kurdish people and democratic politics have suffered a lot. They have paid a high price and resisted, and no one has been able to break their will. They have always demonstrated their stance against injustice, and they do so today. Where there is injustice against municipalities, universities, society, laborers, and trade unions, they will rise up. If the executives of the Istanbul Bar Association are being dismissed, democratic politics, democratic institutions, and forces will take a stand and defend them.

There are few examples of such injustice in the world as there are in Turkey. For the democratization and stability of Turkey, for the solution of the Kurdish question, there are opportunities for democratic and political forces and the Kurdish people to unite their voices and become active. In this way, the AKP is left with two options; either it sees the people’s activism, the call of the people, respects it, changes itself, and takes steps; for this, Rêber Apo has already opened up possibilities; it responds to this, takes serious, honest steps, and initiates a process – but unfortunately there are no signs of this – or it cannot resist the demand and will of the society for the democratization of Turkey. The AKP’s rule will not last forever. There is no stability in Turkey’s crisis situation. The world is in crisis; the Middle East is in crisis. Turkey is going through a crisis far more than that. There must be an extraordinary struggle for democratization. Without this, history will repeat itself, and none of Turkey’s problems will be solved.

Many years ago, your movement declared March 28, the day on which the first commander of the guerrilla comrade Agit gave his life, as a national day of heroism. On the occasion of this anniversary, what traces did comrade Agit leave in your movement that still have an impact today?

To begin with, on the occasion of the anniversary of his martyrdom, I respectfully commemorate comrade Agit and bow before his legacy as well as the legacy of all the martyrs that have given their lives within this struggle.

Comrade Agit has a special place in our history. As Rêber Apo said, he is a national commander. Just as Mazlum Dogan is the cornerstone of the PKK’s resistance, commander Agit is the bridge from the prison in Amed (tr. Diyarbakir) to the mountains. Comrade Agit was the first to bravely take to the mountains of Kurdistan. In this respect, he prepared new ground. He was the first to establish and train guerrilla forces and conducted diplomacy and politics under the most difficult conditions. He was an activist when necessary, a politician when necessary, and a diplomat when necessary. He was a versatile and developed personality. However, when Agit is mentioned, his command comes to mind. He was a national commander. and played a leading role in the establishment of the guerrilla.

In Agit’s vocabulary, there was no room for complaint, pessimism, or negativity. There was always victory, a positive outlook, and self-confidence. No matter what the conditions were, no matter how difficult it was, Comrade Agit would always find a way to take steps and achieve results. He was very confident in himself. Those who were with Comrade Agit learned to trust in their own strength. Being with Comrade Agit meant achieving, getting results. He always gave confidence to his comrades and society.

One of his most important characteristics was his courage. He was a strategic thinker and was always focusing, trying to anticipate. Developing plans accordingly, setting goals, realizing big goals, and thinking big were the greatness of Comrade Agit’s personality. For this reason, Rêber Apo constantly mentions comrade Agit. He left his mark on the movement and developed a historic move. When Comrade Agit was martyred, the state propagandized that Rêber Apo’s right hand was destroyed, that the PKK would never recover. There was, in fact, a grain of truth in it. Comrade Agit was indeed irreplaceable. However, as a result of Rêber Apo’s labor, concentration, struggle, and training of thousands of friends, today thousands of comrades like Agit, Mazlum, Sara, Rahshan, and so on form today’s YJA Star and HPG guerrilla. A spirit was created, and this spirit forms the foundation of today’s guerrilla. Comrade Agit has left such a legacy that this struggle will continue, will get results, and will succeed, no matter what the conditions are. Thousands of young people and guerrillas from all four parts of Kurdistan and abroad are standing and fighting with this belief.

April 4, the 76th birthday of peoples leader Abdullah Ocalan, is just a few days away. It is a day traditionally celebrated by the Kurdish people and their international friends. Coming to an end of our interview, what would you like to tell us about this day?

We celebrate the birthday of Rêber Apo as the birthday of our people. To open up on this, Rêber Apo has never lived for himself. We do not consider him as one individual. He does not belong to himself. Rêber Apo is millions of people. With his thousands of years of analysis and paradigm, he illuminates the way forward for humanity and is the answer to many problems out there. No nation state borders, no identity can define Rêber Apo. He belongs to everyone, to humanity. This is why this day is important. The people should celebrate this day with great excitement and enthusiasm. Such national days are rare in the history of the Kurdish people. It unites all Kurds. It is a chance, a historical opportunity, and should be approached like this. Our people are approaching and evaluating it in this way. Rêber Apo’s paradigm of women’s freedom, social ecology, and democratic society is the foundation of this revolution. On April 4th it is celebrated. Kurds have planted thousands of trees to celebrate this day. This is a beautiful and important tradition that needs to be continued, and generally speaking, this day must be a day of celebration.

As the Kurdish people, and especially as members, cadres and militants of this movement, we consider this day as a special day, a day to see our own reality once again, to review ourselves. How close am I to the reality of Rêber Apo today? To what extent do I represent Rêber Apo in my life? To what extent can I respond to his struggle? What are my shortcomings and weaknesses? How can I improve myself further? How can I be the answer for the future? It is a day that we take as a a basis to rebuild ourselves, to create a new synergy, a new power in ourselves, to organize ourselves. It is not just a celebration, but an awareness, self-awareness, self-recognition, self-knowledge, seeing, and re-creating oneself… Therefore, I congratulate everyone in the four parts of Kurdistan, especially women and youth, on the birthday of Rêber Apo.

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